the UKASC migration thread

[Lord Krell]

Very immature way to close it. Pretending it was hacked and then just closing it without warning. So many deals were part way through and now people are left with no goods and payment sent or vice versa. Even if they did stick it back up I wouldn't cross the road to ###### on them if they were on fire.

 

I'm taking my ball and going home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

At then end of the day it was somebody's personal webspace that they were letting you use free of charge. If he decided to replace to entire site with 500 images of midget porn he could have because its his site.

 

The owner is under no obligation to keep the site running and no obligation to keep the sites users happy.

[cracker]

UKAN is working for me

 

temporary error methinks!

[mrpibb]

At then end of the day it was somebody's personal webspace that they were letting you use free of charge. If he decided to replace to entire site with 500 images of midget porn he could have because its his site.

 

The owner is under no obligation to keep the site running and no obligation to keep the sites users happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Don't you think that, in hosting a (very popular) publicly-used forum, it's only polite to maintain it in a way that is satisfactory for both the owners and users? Surely in running a public site, there is a certain amount of responsibility in running it respectably?

 

The way ASCUK was closed is just a very good example of the rampant God-complex so many of those running the site seemed to display. Many people are out of pocket thanks to unresolved deals thanks to the irresponsibility of ASCUK , and I feel very sorry for those people.

[Yith]

The problem is that the owner also encouraged sites to be hosted on there.

 

Okay so they didn't have to pay anything for the pleasure.

 

The actions of the hosts have now put a number of sites up *beep* creek with not too many paddles left. Their booking threads have gone, etc and they receieved no warning of this action. Heck even the mods on the forums were none-the-wiser concerning what was going on!

 

Even though no money changed hands the site owner has a responsibility to its users. If not legally binding then at least morally!

 

If my data which I stored on that site was to vanish without warning then as a private user I have every right to be angry and upset. But if I was a site owner with an actual business running off those forums then I'd have every right to consider legal action!!

 

Edit: This isn't to say that I don't think that the forum owner had every right to shut the forums down... just that some sort of grace period is most definately the courteous thing to do!

 

Oh on the UKAN going down thing... I did warn this would happen on the thread on UKAN... so "I told you so!" However you can't read that of course!

 

Edit... ah UKAN is back... good.

[GuzziHero]

There was a theory running round that Fluffy etc didnt WANT anyone to donate...as that would mean that they would be obligated to run the site in a more member-friendly way...interesting.

[rizzo]

They'll need to sort out the for sale forums here. It's hard enough now having everything lumped in one place. It'll be impossible if the volume increases. Your post will stay on the first page 20 minutes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being sorted, old son

[Profolactic]

It will be missed but ive already found arnie and the gang to be much more friendly that Fluffy and his bunch of banditos. ive never been onesided but having been caught in the middle of a deal its messed things up a bit. so ive arived on arnies for good!

 

Adam

[snowman]

To be fair, I think Fluffy STATED on numerous occassions that he wouldn't accept donations/fees.

 

Legal action would be hopeless, as there was no contract between any site/retailer and ASCUK.

 

It's a shame to see ASCUK go, IMO, as I felt it was more technical than Arnies, which tends to be more sociable, but, hey, it was a personal site that the person got sick of running - That's just the way it is.

 

As they say in Law & Order - "Move along now, there's nothing to see"

 

Cheers.

[Dentonboy]

Oh well, it is gone. Life goes on.

 

I have been on here for a while, and if the mods would be kind enough to help msx361, myself and HampshireNick set up a sub-forum, I'll be happier on this much more pleasant site than on t'other.

 

I just hope Arnie's is not over-run by the stupid, pointless and downright juvenile squabbles that dominated ASCUK.....

[twiglet]

They'll need to sort out the for sale forums here. It's hard enough now having everything lumped in one place. It'll be impossible if the volume increases. Your post will stay on the first page 20 minutes.

*

 

Being sorted, old son

 

Why couldnt ascuk be friendly like that i remember one guy telling the mods in the queries and errors section that the clock was out and he got threatened with a ban!

[Chimpy]

The problem is that the owner also encouraged sites to be hosted on there.

 

Okay so they didn't have to pay anything for the pleasure.

 

The actions of the hosts have now put a number of sites up *beep* creek with not too many paddles left. Their booking threads have gone, etc and they receieved no warning of this action. Heck even the mods on the forums were none-the-wiser concerning what was going on!

 

Even though no money changed hands the site owner has a responsibility to its users. If not legally binding then at least morally!

 

If my data which I stored on that site was to vanish without warning then as a private user I have every right to be angry and upset. But if I was a site owner with an actual business running off those forums then I'd have every right to consider legal action!!

 

Edit: This isn't to say that I don't think that the forum owner had every right to shut the forums down... just that some sort of grace period is most definately the courteous thing to do!

 

Oh on the UKAN going down thing... I did warn this would happen on the thread on UKAN... so "I told you so!" However you can't read that of course!

 

Edit... ah UKAN is back... good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks to ASCUK Airsoft Site Owners made a fair bit of cash as well along the way probably well into the tens of thousands as a whole...

 

The sad thing is all the people bitching about ASCUK were more than happy to continue using it and will only put their side forward. All these spurious conspiracy theories and rumours is probably part of the reason fluffy decided to jack it all in!

[Yith]

Thanks to ASCUK Airsoft Site Owners made a fair bit of cash as well along the way probably well into the tens of thousands as a whole...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That money has to keep coming in though... Its all very well talking about profit margins etc... but the fact at the end of the days is that these guys (site owners, retails) do a service which keeps airsoft going in this country. To do this they have to make money in order to keep their businesses going and put food in their children's mouths!

 

Without them doing this, there would be no airsoft.

 

In the same way that ASCUK was doing them a favour, they are doing all of us a favour and hence deserve respect and courtesy from all of us.

 

If ASCUK vanishing overnight means a site or retailer going under... would you be annoyed then?

[***Ice***]

I have to agree with Snowman Arnies isn't as technical as ASCUK was, the technical section moves along a lot quicker here, but the nature of some of the questions aren't quite as high key as on ASCUK. I think that's because a lot of noobs were perhaps frightened to post there, and if they belonged to both forums they would feel they'd get a quicker and perhaps less abusive response here. However to be honest if you really did want to go technical then you might just as well have gone the whole nine yards and asked it on the Mechanics forum rather than ASCUK. Arnies is the friendliest airsoft forum going, and I belong to loads, I think it's because it's multi-cultural, ASCUK was a bit Brits only. The problem with ASCUK towards the end was it didn't move, the surgery and newbie section could go for days without a new post or thread, to be honest it got quite boring; here you hit F5 and about 10 people have posted something new. Although I must say I preferred the sales section on ASCUK; that was one area where the layout was nicer than Arnies.

 

I used ASCUK more, which is obvious comparing my post count here and there, but to be honest I'm not too strung up at all about it closing down, the only thing that is a bit of a ###### was I had sales going on when it closed.

 

 

Ice

[Psaldorn]

Hopefully retailers wouldn't want to put themselves in such an eggs/basket ratio as that

 

Like I said before, there are plenty of alternatives.

 

If you want to discuss repurcussions of this then make a new thread, this thread has it's own, clearly defined, purpose.

 

(Which, somewhat hypocritically, I am flaunting with this very post, oh dear )

[Melonfish]

is it perhaps worth looking into getting the sites some forums on here? i know places like Phoenix and Lightfighter did alot of their booking through ASC and an arnies forum would do them just as well.

if anyone's a regular at these sites its worth mentioning to the owners.

pete

[Chimpy]

That money has to keep coming in though... Its all very well talking about profit margins etc... but the fact at the end of the days is that these guys (site owners, retails) do a service which keeps airsoft going in this country. To do this they have to make money in order to keep their businesses going and put food in their children's mouths!

 

Without them doing this, there would be no airsoft.

 

In the same way that ASCUK was doing them a favour, they are doing all of us a favour and hence deserve respect and courtesy from all of us.

 

If ASCUK vanishing overnight means a site or retailer going under... would you be annoyed then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Anyone running a business relying on a free service for 100% of their custom is a bit barmy anyway. Besides sites would exist if there were Airsofters willing to play. Airsofters came before sites existed...

 

We don't 'owe' the people we pay to provide us a service anything.

[Profolactic]

ASCUK was a brilliant site, and now its gone! ahwell life moves on! lets hope arnies blossoms into a bigger better site than ASCUK was. it is already a more relaxed site with clear rules that stay the same, unlike ASCUK that had some rules for one set of people and different ones for others. Cheers to arnie and the mods for welcoming us so peacefully into the fold!

 

edited by me to remove stuff i shoudln't have said whilst still seeing red!

[Chimpy]

If you are Frozen Turkey on UKAN then I might just point out you are misrepresenting the case slightly there.

[Profolactic]

had realised that after posted, regretable i realise. i still say thanks to arnie tho! sorry for my own thickheadedness at that point. just got a bit angry! slightly embarressed!

[GuzziHero]

Arnies is the friendliest airsoft forum going, and I belong to loads, I think it's because it's multi-cultural, ASCUK was a bit Brits only.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Troof. I have had technical questions on a particular AR-15 spec...I got in answered here because we have American real-steel experienced users that knew the answers. I doubt Id have gotten such swift and excellent info on ASCUK.

 

Chimpy - noone is doubting that ASCUK was the best forum in some respects, and I dont think anyone, to a man, is ungrateful for its brilliant resources. I made many friends on there, and it was utterly invaluable in getting me started in airsoft.

 

What I did and do object to is the moderation style. Having to debase oneself to avoid a ban because a mod considers that you have said something that he doesnt agree with...thats not a community. Its a dictatorship. Granted, they have the right to dictate on their own forum...but they cannot be surprised if some folk grumble behind their backs. After all, and I apologise if this is considered a bad analogy, even in Caucescu's Romania, widespread surveillance and a brutal secret police force failed to predict or quell they uprising that saw that regime's collapse. So Fluffy and co should have expected some dissenting voices at their bully-boy moderating approach.

 

As for their helping sites etc...there is ONE reason why I have never been to LightFighter Urban. Because Beaker plays there. Im not a person who likes confrontation, and I didnt want to go there and risk confrontation with him, not least because of the fact that I know I would lose. I also expect that I would find a very strong cliquishness and a real lack of free speech because of his presence. I wonder how many others have been put off by that?

 

In the words of Front 242's 'Gripped By Fear'

 

"Your tyranny I was part of, is now cracking on every side"

 

Couldnt have put it better myself.

[R1200RT]

Well, at the risk of upsetting certain people, I have to say that having just read the ever growing thread on UKAN what I have always thought about certain people is proving itself to be true.

 

I rarely posted on ascuk (or indeed ukan, for that matter) because of the high handed, if not 'god' like way the forums could be censored (want to disagree with a mod or admin? Have a ban then) and the 'it's our ball and we'll do what the hell we like with it' attitude - one I have never found on this site (I got told off for bumping and deserved it, didn't read the rules).

 

The way the site was taken down was both purile and childish, but then that shouldn't be a surprise given SOME of the people responsible.

 

Will I miss it (and ukan. The way things look from my end I can't see it being around much longer)? Damn straight I will. BUT I won't miss the holier-than-thou attitude and sometimes outright rudeness of those with power. I've never cared for being treated as a small child (by those who demand respect without first giving it) and I won't miss that at all.

 

Their seems to be a lot of bellyaching from the owner/mods about various things as well, such as the fact that no one ever said thanks, and how upset people are that sales/trades were lost etc. Well what do they really expect? This site appeared to have been hacked, quite a few people asked the mods directly if it had and they said - nothing. Zip. Nada. Sweet F. A.

 

Did they show any respect? No. I don't doubt that they were (at least some od them, anyway) laughing about how stupid those ungrateful users of the ukasc were, and didn't it serve them right. Well, if you wanted to look stupid and petty guys, I have to say you won the gold medal and the oscar for the melodramatic way you did it.

[Yith]

Anyone running a business relying on a free service for 100% of their custom is a bit barmy anyway.

Heh... I have to agree there.

 

We don't 'owe' the people we pay to provide us a service anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That however I do disagree with. As I said without some people putting 100% of their time into the hobby there would be no hobby.

 

As long as they don't rip the customer off and give good customer service then they're doing us a huge favour and should be treated with courtesy.

[Profolactic]

They gave good service till the end, to a degree, the information of the forums was infallable! but the way it was modded was a bit ott in some cases.

[crummy]

Its a Shame to See any Sites and Forums that are to do with Airsoft go. I think there is a Need for More. Its always good to have backups.

 

There have been times when Both Arnies and Airsoftcommunity were both down and this left us with nothing (even though it was only for a Short time).

 

I have a Site and I was thinking about running another Forum to complement what we already had.

 

Dont know if I'm out of order posting this, but its not Intended as being a Competitor For Arnies or any other Site Forum.

 

I am looking for Admins to Help Mod the Forum (need to be over 21).

 

Thanks

 

Crummy www.britishairsoft.co.uk

[GuzziHero]

R1200 -

 

I was just mentioning a point to someone that you brought up...the lack of respect.

 

On ASCUK, I saw message after message of how Arnies is for kiddies and noobs and its poor quality because of the American users (which I think are a vital part of what makes Arnies better). And yet here I see the Arnies mods asking people not to slag of ASCUK or its mods, and closing threads that threaten to turn into flame wars. Yet when Arnies had a shutdown for a few weeks earlier this year (which was advertised in advance so people would know what was happening) there they were...the same ASCUK suck-ups (by far the minority of ASC users) making a thread "Arnies am gone?" and celebrating the shut down.

 

Even when an Arnies mod (cant remember your name) went to ASCUK to offer help and considerate words when ASCUK got hacked a while back, he was insulted and run out of town. What is it when your 'rival' comes on his own volition to show consideration and you shoot him down in flames? I dont really have a word for it...only 'shameful' seems to fit the bill.

 

And I had to force myself not to yell out 'hypocrisy!' when a user got banned for using a racial slur (a spur of the moment thing...a stupid mistake for which the user apologised in spades), threatened with police action and his university contacted so they blocked ASCUK on their servers...at the same time one of their own mods had a "Hates Fags" userbar in their signature.

 

Much WTF-age did ensue this side of the keyboard.