Own Firearms?

[Chimpy]

Ahh... the great American religion that is the 1911.

[Lord Blackgoat]

In before Sale states why pistols that are not of the 1911 design are still good....... nevermind. I read someone got a 1.5" 10 shot group with a Les Baer 1911 at 50 yds, pretty crazy if it is true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If it's accurate enough for PD (Glocks are a big majority among the French GIGN, GIPN and RAID, the different versions of "SWAT" we have, Sigs coming close seconds) then you shouldn't be concerned about its "innacuracy". And I bet this kind of result was not done in a situation of stress either... In most situation, how would you justify self-defense at more than 20-25 yards? Are you sure you would be accurate enough to hit your target in combat conditions, without "spraying the background", AKA "killing the granny that stand behind" as we say in the Army?

I bet race guns are not very popular for CCW!

 

Concerning the point of "knowing how to use a Glock", of course everyone can do that, it's stupid-proofed almost as well as a revolver. But guns are conceived to be easy to use, noot hard-to-use-because-it-might-fall-in-the-wrong-hands! Let's review a self defense situation: if you have to draw your gun, it would be that the BG is menacing you/someone with a weapon. Why and how would he try to grab your gun when he can shoot you, and his hands are already full? You could argue that he is not alone. I don't know for you, but I'm no Jack Bauer, and my life is deadly boring. I even dring Newcastle Brown Ale (Brits will understand) in the worst pubs in town to find a proper fight, and nothing ever happens! And I bet I won't have to save the world tomorrow (and I regret that)

 

My 2 .22 lr.

[Sledge]

Ahh... the great American religion that is the 1911.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the Americans hadn't been in the Phillipine-American war, do you think today they'd be worshipping the .38 Long Colt revolver?

 

[Chimpy]

If the Americans hadn't been in the Phillipine-American war, do you think today they'd be worshipping the .38 Long Colt revolver?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Na, it'd probably be something like Ford. 1911 has a beauty of design a lot of guns lack. A bit like Glocks.

[Sale]

In before Sale states why pistols that are not of the 1911 design are still good....... nevermind. I read someone got a 1.5" 10 shot group with a Les Baer 1911 at 50 yds, pretty crazy if it is true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That kind of accuracy is entirely possible, although it takes a magnificient individual weapon, magnificiently loaded cartridges and a top dog shooter. I've (personally) seen a 14 mm five shot grouping from 25 meters, produced by a SIG Sauer X-Five. Those numbers translate to 28 mm at 50 meters, or just a hair over an inch at 50 yards. But like I said, it takes an exceptionally well performing individual. The factory guarantee for the X-Five is 2 inches from 50 yards. I've seen some custom 1911 models also with a 2"/50yd guarantee, but never anything lower than that.

 

I'm certainly not dissing the 1911 here. As a matter of fact, I gave serious thought to getting a 2011 before opting for the X-Five, and I'm still thinking about a classic 1911 in .45 ACP. But if I were to arm people to work with something (and I'm not talking about gunsmithing here), it would be something like Glocks or HS pistols (known to the majority as the Springfield XD).

 

-Sale

[Triggerhappychappy]

Finally got a picture of one of my "Firearms"

 

A vintage 1966 Benjamin Franklin Model 312 .22Cal pellet gun.

My Grandfather gave it to me.

 

Edit: Also note that I downed three very annoying birds with it today. The kind of birds that dive bomb and attack your head.

Needless to say is: Lead pellet>Beak and feathers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Birds only do that if:

1. They dont like you.

2. More likely, they were defending a nest.... You killed some poor egg's parents, murderer.

 

Personally Im an Airgun person myself, since trying to aquire firearms in the UK is 99% impossible- aquiring a shotgun license is much easier though.....

[Yeager]

Lol, I knew it was only a matter of time before someone said it..

[evilliboba]

They aren't protecting a nest they are just obnoxious, pain the rear, birds. They squawk all night long and they get into trash if it is left out.

 

Anyways I won't have to worry about them too much longer. I just bought a Gamo Shadow 1000 .177 pellet rifle. Break-barrel action, it shoots a little over forum limits at 1200FPS with Raptor ammo. I tested it and it passed clean through a tin can filled with dirt, then through three layer plywood and buried into wood fence. That is with the maximum penetrator ammo. I switched to impact loads after that.

[Yeager]

They aren't protecting a nest they are just obnoxious, pain the rear, birds. They squawk all night long and they get into trash if it is left out.

 

Anyways I won't have to worry about them too much longer. I just bought a Gamo Shadow 1000 .177 pellet rifle. Break-barrel action, it shoots a little over forum limits at 1200FPS with Raptor ammo. I tested it and it passed clean through a tin can filled with dirt, then through three layer plywood and buried into wood fence. That is with the maximum penetrator ammo. I switched to impact loads after that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

lol, over penetration..

 

All this talk of, "MURDERRRRRR" is making me want to take down my 1077W and go kill a few black birds.

 

Too bad my neighbors put a goddamn mobile home right in my line of fire.

[BrentN]

Glocks are single action only. They call it safe action but the only way to fire if the internal hammer is cocked, thus single action.

 

I actually like glocks, if there was one gun that I would have in safe burried somewhere or hiding for an emergency survival weapon, that would be it. They may not have the best fit in the hand, IMO, but they never seem to fail, extremley durable and no maintanence required AT ALL if you want it to shoot.

[Sale]

Glocks are single action only. They call it safe action but the only way to fire if the internal hammer is cocked, thus single action.

This applies to Airsoft versions of the Glock. The real ones do not have an internal hammer, and the firing pin is not fully cocked. Because the trigger also cocks the firing pin (even though from a pre-cocked stage) before firing, it doesn't count as a single action.

 

-Sale

[Jagdraben]

So the 1911-style thumb-safety on the current SIG Sauer SAO:s is in an awkward place? Funny you should mention the frame as well. Mine is steel.

 

In SiGArms's catalog, all of their Sauer pistols have aluminum frames. Yours is probably made by Swiss Arms.

 

As for the safety, there's something wrong about the location of the safety if deactivating it, or riding your thumb on it as is commonly done with 1911s, causes the slide lock to be released.

 

1911s are the best handguns if you want to spend time and money on custom parts and end up paying 3-4 times the price of a Glock for a handgun, which is marginally more accurate and still not as reliable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1911s are perfectly reliable, with or without customization. LAPD SWAT, USMC Force Recon, MARSOC, and the Gallatin County Sheriff all use 1911s (Bozeman Police Dept. uses Glocks)... Montana Department of Corrections Probation & Parole Officers are going to transition from Glocks to 1911s in the up-coming fiscal year (starting in July). Oh, and FBI HRT use 2011s.

 

Given the above list of folk who use 1911s and variants thereof, I find it hard to believe that the 1911 is any less reliable than a Glock. As for cost... a brand-new Glock costs about $550USD. A brand-new Kimber TLE II costs $870USD and a Springfield Service 1911 costs $770USD. More expensive? Yeah. But they're perfectly reliable, perfectly accurate handguns, that don't explode when fed lead bullets. (And the angle of the grips isn't funky.)

 

And the best part of the 1911? There will never be a rap song about it.

[AaronHorrocks]

Don't for get the 1911 had about a 75 year run in the US Army as the issued sidearm!

[AliceHKfan]

In SiGArms's catalog, all of their Sauer pistols have aluminum frames. Yours is probably made by Swiss Arms.

 

(last I heard the frames are imported with the stamp saying Made in Germany and I think you mean)

 

As for the safety, there's something wrong about the location of the safety if deactivating it, or riding your thumb on it as is commonly done with 1911s, causes the slide lock to be released.

1911s are perfectly reliable, with or without customization. LAPD SWAT, USMC Force Recon, MARSOC, and the Gallatin County Sheriff all use 1911s (Bozeman Police Dept. uses Glocks)... Montana Department of Corrections Probation & Parole Officers are going to transition from Glocks to 1911s in the up-coming fiscal year (starting in July). Oh, and FBI HRT use 2011s.

 

iirc the LAPD SWAT, USMCFR and MARSOC are customized and I heard HRT uses Springfield 1911's

 

Given the above list of folk who use 1911s and variants thereof, I find it hard to believe that the 1911 is any less reliable than a Glock. As for cost... a brand-new Glock costs about $550USD. A brand-new Kimber TLE II costs $870USD and a Springfield Service 1911 costs $770USD. More expensive? Yeah. But they're perfectly reliable, perfectly accurate handguns, that don't explode when fed lead bullets. (And the angle of the grips isn't funky.)

 

your price on the Kimber TLE II is about 100USD off and possibly for every other gun for that matter and there is a good chance any gun with polygonal barrels fed lead will explode so I'm assuming you're saying USP's/Mk23's, Desert Eagles, and any other with this function will explode

 

And the best part of the 1911? There will never be a rap song about it.

 

and there probably has been get over it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[alpha54]

LAPD SWAT, USMC Force Recon, MARSOC

And this would be where I see the flaw in your argument - all of these units use highly customised 1911s, yet you're comparing them to other pistol that are not only unmodified, but also cheaper.

[Jagdraben]

LAPD SWAT 1911s are manufactured by Kimber of America. They are probably customized by their armorers, but so is every other gun in their arsenal. And, in that vein, it means that we cannot view the MP5 as a reliable weapon or the M4, because they're modified by the armorers.

 

The pistols I mention are factory customs. They are designed and manufactured to have custom features.

 

And, Alice, those prices are taken from Impactguns.com. If you have an issue with their prices, take it up with them.

[AliceHKfan]

yeah and the prices I got are from the manufacturer's so if you have an issue, take it up with Kimber and etc

 

Edit: btw Kimber says they made the guns to LAPD's specifications, that leads me to believe they did the work themselves not the armorers

[Jagdraben]

Almost no one charges MSRP on firearms. So those suggested prices aren't exactly going to be accurate to what they're actually retailing for.

[The Crunchy Bunny]

Oh well today I wnet and shot the new Mosquito .22LR today and It ###### me off. The thing kept jamming on Peters .22LR(it sucks Penis) ammo but then on federal hyper velocity rounds it got somewhat better. I got it to fire a full mag maybe 3 out of 5 times and if you rapid fire it it misfeeds more. Damn piece of *beep*.

[AliceHKfan]

might be that the ammo didn't have enough pressure to cycle the slide all the way

[Sale]

1911s are perfectly reliable, with or without customization.

That almost made my morning coffee spill all over the keyboard. Even the most die-hard 1911-fans I know admit that even the offerings from reputable manufacturers may require tinkering to be reliable, and quite a lot of factory models simply can't be trusted out of the box. It's sad to see how a lot of American gun magazines (which I occasionally read) dismiss these issues completely, or treat them as an inevitable occurence. "Oh the pistol wouldn't feed and eject properly, but I had a new one fitted and customized by the best gunsmith in town and for the following 500 rounds there were no malfunctions. This pistol is reliable."

 

LAPD SWAT, USMC Force Recon, MARSOC, and the Gallatin County Sheriff all use 1911s (Bozeman Police Dept. uses Glocks)... Montana Department of Corrections Probation & Parole Officers are going to transition from Glocks to 1911s in the up-coming fiscal year (starting in July). Oh, and FBI HRT use 2011s.

 

Given the above list of folk who use 1911s and variants thereof, I find it hard to believe that the 1911 is any less reliable than a Glock.

Well if we can judge things on that basis, surely this list would give the answer to which religion is the right one, no?

 

The weapons choice of any government agency or military force is heavily connected with politics and other secondary arguments. The only reason why the Beretta M92FS was chosen as the M9 pistol was that it was cheaper than the SIG Sauer P226.

 

I find it odd how you turn a blind eye to the shortcomings of the 1911 (every pistol has a few), but are very quick to criticize the AR-15 weapon type.

 

-Sale

 

P.S. I have to admit that the argument about rap songs featuring the Glock in the lyrics hit home.

[Yeager]

P.S. I have to admit that the argument about rap songs featuring the Glock in the lyrics hit home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

At least glocks aren't in any Emo songs..

[sekiryu]

I hate American gun magazines. Nothing but talk about ARs, and calling G3s "gas operated".

 

Atleast glocks aren't in any Emo songs..

 

Hey, Shinedown ain't emo.

[AliceHKfan]

Uffie's Pop the Glock XD

[Sale]

You can't go wrong with Cypress Hill and Hand on the Glock.