Its funny how the views of MPEGs changed over time

[interpolgunit]

Initial stage: Stay away from these! They may shoot at higher fps's at first, but they will break within a week.

 

Second stage: Good bang for the buck, but will never surpass marui quality. Save up and buy another gun if you want an AEG that lasts more than a year because you will wind up spending on upgrades/parts which will outcost a higher end AEG.

 

Final stage (although there are still dissenters): Almost Marui quality, but the price difference will mean a lot to most. R&D and quality control still aren't top notch, but it's catching up.

 

Makes me kind of regret buying a 300 dollar aug when I could have bought 3 MPEGs. But it's cool seeing how easily accessible airsoft is now, especially now that China is R&Ding more guns as well.

[Faith]

This is my first post on this forum, and i couldnt find a more apropriate thread for it.

 

I wanted to get into airisoft back in the day, but you couldnt without 300 dollars for a gun, your vest it just adds up quickly. Now i can buy a full metal AIM Super M4a1 for 219 bucks with a charger battery and 30 mm red dot, gun is supposed to shoot consistently around 300 fps. I should beable to start playing at my local feild for the same ammount of money(ish) as i would of payed for my gun, battery, and charger(ish).

[Kousnik]

The reason opinions changed is because more and more people stopped going on hearsay and actually read proper reviews and then went and got the guns themselves. Then then learnt what they had been told was utter rubbish.

 

A lot of people had convinced themselves that if its lower than TM, its the property of the devil.

[MistorPie]

Yeah, and the quality of the MPEG's has increased as well.

 

I believe the first was UTG/DE, which was iffy at best.

Now we got models like the CYMA .28 and the JG clones, which are top notch.

[FarEast]

As a complete Tokyo Marui fan boy I can honestly say that I would rather have a Marui than a clone, Why because Tokyo Marui have a name to keep in the Airsoft industry. The thing that gets me though is the cost of Marui's all over the world, I can walk into a high street Airsoft shop and pick up a M4A1 for $200. USD yet in the US your looking at over $300 USD.

 

Anyway I will be doing a review of the new Echo1 M16A4 and if it can convince me then it must be good! We will have to wait and see.

[Belladonna]

opinion changed incrimentally with quality, tho some still wont come round to the fact thier as good, and in some case, better

Cyma g18c - higher fps than tm, better hop, larger battery for example

[FarEast]

Now the question is where can you buy them from online???

[Lithium Jack]

Gunner Airsoft has them.

[CobaltSky]

I agree with MistorPie and Belladonna, they just got better so people started to like them better. TMs are good (for the most part) and are still the most reliable AEGs out there, but they have a price tag to go with that. Not everybody can even afford the $200 they cost in Japan, let alone the mark-ups we face in other parts of the world. So they turned to MPEGs.

 

At first they were derided because they did perform badly. All of the recent CYMAs AEGs (.28 onwards) and other cheap manufacturers have been able to hold their own as far as performance goes. In the end that's what matters more than external quality, so the Chinese companies are becoming more popular.

[Docv400]

Remember too, that a lot of things were copied/cloned by Japanese firms way back.

I'm thinking Motorbikes, cars, electrical goods etc.

Then as their reputation grew for value, reliability, performance etc, they started making their own designs.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Maybe the Chinese firms will go the same route?

We are talking about pretty simple toys, when all's said and done, it can't be that hard to make a quality product for a decent price.

[Pyromaster]

Btw, Is the range on MPEGS as good as normal AEGS?

 

EDIT: Wtf? I just checked out the price of MPEGS on gunner....

 

a full metal G3-SG1, 300fps w .2s, only $95??? is this too good to be true?

[snowman]

opinion changed incrimentally with quality, tho some still wont come round to the fact thier as good, and in some case, better

Cyma g18c - higher fps than tm, better hop, larger battery for example

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I guess that for some, those things aren't the be all and end all.

 

The Warrior1 L96 clone has a higher power than the Maruzen out of the box, but that doesn't make it a better gun, since all that power seems to bring problems with it.

 

Those shots of the angle grinder scars on the Chinese MP40 AEG are rather disturbing, too.

 

I've not seen any of the latest Chinese MAEGs/Sniper rifles and, at the low prices, they seem very tempting, but I've yet to see anyone who's opinion I rate declare that China is producing high quality products which are better than the Japanese ones.

 

Certainly, they've come on in leaps and bounds, and they provide a (seemingly) usable option at a lower price, but 'the same or better'? A way to go yet, I suspect...

 

Cheers.

[Onechance]

The important thing is price to quality ratio, and most clones are reaching that ratio.

[Pyromaster]

Yeah, China has advanced so much in the past few years, who wants to make a bet that China will surpass TM and the like?

[newtoairsoft]

There is still no substitute for the quality of a Marui, CA or systema made weapon. MPEG's have and will continue to improve in quality but there are other issues to take into consideration about why these lower end replicas could be dangerous to the airsoft community. Since the inception of the MPEG more and more young boys are able to get into airsoft because the prices are far less inhibitive then they were even a few years ago. So... we now have a large amount of 12-14 year old pubescent and generally stupid youths running around with high powered replicas. It worry's me from time to time.

[Mike_West]

a full metal G3-SG1, 300fps w .2s, only $95???  is this too good to be true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not even a wallhanger.

There's no decent G3 in the 100-150$ price range yet. Even the Well R8 is a bit iffy.

[TheKurodaVagrant]

I still choose to go with Tokyo Marui products. Even though having an armory of inexpensive but good-quality weapons would be nice, I'd MUCH rather pay a premium to see a company that cares to innovate and bring out only the most reliable weapons thrive and continue to live.

 

Once the clone companies actually innovate, then maybe I'll reconsider.

[Stealthbomber]

Personally, I don't think peoples opinions of these cloned guns have changed much and neither have the guns themselves.

 

Is there anybody who, if offered the choice, would choose a Cyma 028 or an MP008 instead of a Tokyo Marui Ak47 or M14?

Thought not.

 

So, we've established that (if we're honest) we DO still consider the clones to be inferior.

What we're saying, however, is that it's Ok to get a gun which is 90% as good for 40% of the price.

That's fair enough until you look at the reasons why it's possible.

TM, KSC and a couple of other companies have taken the trouble of designing products, developing them and manufacturing them to the highest standards they can, for the japanese market.

As a result, airsoft has become a worldwide sport.

Now, the situation we're in demands that these companies reduce their prices or risk losing sales.

The only way they're going to do this is move their factories to China and suffer the reduction in quality of materials and construction that goes with it.

 

So, now the Chinese factories are ripping off established manufacturers, where do we go from here?

Well, it wouldn't be the first time there have been rip-offs. Pretty much everybody is already getting along by selling rip-offs of TM guns. Fortunately they are all greedy enough to try and charge the same as what TM charge for their guns. This is actually a good thing since it maintains a decent level of competition in the market.

 

Now the chinese are selling copies of TMs guns for a fraction of the price, TM really has their back to the wall with nowhere to go. The ONLY courses of action open to them are the following:-

1) Shut up shop.

2) Move to China, reduce standards and slash R&D budget.

3) Attempt to protect their rights through legal action.

 

1) is obviously not a good option. TM continue to bring out new models which the industry needs to remain fresh and which the chinese need so they can copy.

 

You've all seen LPEGs, right?

THAT is a gun designed and built to chinese standards and specifications. It's made out of the sort of plastic most often found in vending-machine cups and has internals of the sort of quality and power more usually found in an electric toothbrush (a chinese one).

 

If TM aren't around to develop new models, are you going to trust the Chinese to do it?

Me neither.

 

It's all very well saying that TM "mostly" bring out guns with similar internals and it's true. If TM shut down before the M14 was released, do you suppose any chinese company could have designed a gearbox which can fit in an M14 stock?

 

2) isn't very pleasant either.

We now have TM guns as a baseline and see that the cloned guns are "almost" as good. If the quality of TM guns reduces then we lose that baseline and there's every chance that overall standards will drop further.

You've also, as with 1, got the very real possibility that TM would content themselves to sell their existing range instead of developing new guns.

 

3) is probably the most likely outcome but, unfortunately, it'll cost money (passed on to the customers in higher prices) and probably not be terribly productive.

 

 

So, what's gonna happen?

Most likely TM and other "original" manufacturers will retreat further into the Japanese domestic market.

I've said it before: Japanese culture is VERY fashion conscious and, fortunately, this is a good thing in this case.

Whereas brits and yanks seem happy with a $90 AK, most Jap buyers don't want or need another AK so they'll carry on using whatever gun they currently have until something new (and cool) is released to get their attention. Since it's unlikely that chinese companies will ever be in a position to do this, the Jap' domestic market will probably end up being the saviour of high-end airsoft.

 

Personally, I'd suggest that people think twice about buying clones. If you want a gun to chop up for a project then buy a clone. If, however, you're out to buy your first M4 or G36 I reckon you still owe it to yourself (and to the industry) to give some of your money to the companies that actually made the sport possible and supply the best products.

[Chris North]

I don't agree with buying something just to keep a company in business. If that company offers great, reliable, and unique products, like TM does, then I will. It's really just survival of the fittest. I doubt that any big company is going out of business however.

 

My opinion hasn't changed a whole lot. At first I figured that clones were cheap junk, but then I bought one to try it out. It changed my out look on them and I think that I'll buy a few more. However, I still think that I will buy TM's.

[greatwatermelon]

haha sorry but, i use to own two UTG mp5's. After they displeased me, i tried upgrading the useless one with steel bushings, some of the poles of gears never fit into them. And that one always had feeding problems, won't feed. tappet plate and air nozzle is not worth to spend on.

 

Rather spend on my CA AUG it'll need plenty of repairs if stuff are gonna break.

[RayDavies]

I don't agree with buying something just to keep a company in business

 

That's good for you, but bad for the sport and hobby overall.

 

Good post Stealthbomber, very well put.

 

Although the "free market" seems like an odd place for loyalty, I believe we do owe Tokyo Marui (some of) our continuing business. The bottom line is TM's innovation has almost single-handedly brought the sport from obscure japanese hobby to international sport. If it wasn't for TM, I probably wouldn't know about the sport, or I would have been turned off by ugly, unreliable guns.

 

I could definitely be wrong, but I just don't see the Chinese manufacturers investing in the kind of long-term R&D necessary for projects like the M14.

 

Paying $50-75 more per AEG seems worth it to ensure the sports growth.

[interpolgunit]

I'm not saying TM's are necessarily bad, their incredible guns with great reliability. But here are some common arguments that I have heard about MPEGs that I don't think are necessarily true:

 

MPEGs will cause immature kids to run around and shoot things:

Not necessarily true, immature kids still run around and shoot things with springers. Laymen to airsoft terms wouldn't recognize the difference between a realistic looking spring m16 and a realistic looking AEG m16, they will feel equally threatened.

 

MPEGs are copies of TM and hurt the airsoft market

So are GG, GP, Classic Army, and the other HK producers that copy TM. There's nothing wrong with imitation, especially because all airsoft guns are imitations of real steel guns.

 

MPEGs will decrease the total R&D and creativity of the airsoft industry

This is perhaps the easiest to answer. Just look around. We have new guns coming out like the SCAR-L, FN2000, and the new M4 by Dboys coming out.

 

MPEGs will shut the Japanese market down

This is one of the more logical arguments, and it seems as if it is true. But TM doesn't depend on foreign sales to sustain itself. Japan has one of the most unique economies in the world because of how self-sustaining it is, they charge high prices and pay higher wages, so it's kind of a circular movement of goods. Japanese people are also some of the hardest working in the world, so if they want something, they will work to get it. I don't think TM would EVER cut R&D, quality control, etc. because of a lower-priced Chinese manufacturer. As you said, there are people on this board that will always prefer TM, there you have it they will always have a market.

 

Again, I love Tokyo Marui, I have one and it's rarely failed me. Once upgraded, it can be a beast. I'm not saying MPEGs are better than TM, I'm just saying the airsoft industry is changing, and for the better.

[interpolgunit]

That's good for you, but bad for the sport and hobby overall.

 

Good post Stealthbomber, very well put. 

 

Although the "free market" seems like an odd place for loyalty, I believe we do owe Tokyo Marui (some of) our continuing business.  The bottom line is TM's innovation has almost single-handedly brought the sport from obscure japanese hobby to international sport.  If it wasn't for TM, I probably wouldn't know about the sport, or I would have been turned off by ugly, unreliable guns.

 

I could definitely be wrong, but I just don't see the Chinese manufacturers investing in the kind of long-term R&D necessary for projects like the M14.

 

Paying $50-75 more per AEG seems worth it to ensure the sports growth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The sport has already grown, now it's up to the market to decide which products reign.

 

That argument is like saying we should keep buying Fords because they invented the car, and ignore the copycats like toyota, chevy, ferrari, and benz.

 

Meh people will always disagree with me, but I'm just giving my 2 cents.

[Donut]

I'm still sticking with Marui, where else am I going to find a decent P90?

But these MPEG's are getting better, and I like it. They make good, cheap project bases or spare parts.

[M1 Grand]

There is still no substitute for the quality of a Marui, CA or systema made weapon. MPEG's have and will continue to improve in quality but there are other issues to take into consideration about why these lower end replicas could be dangerous to the airsoft community. Since the inception of the MPEG more and more young boys are able to get into airsoft because the prices are far less inhibitive then they were even a few years ago. So... we now have a large amount of 12-14 year old pubescent and generally stupid youths running around with high powered replicas. It worry's me from time to time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

100% agreed! I am only 18, yes, but I have starting to take a more adult approach to the sport. There are times and places to play safely and times not to. That is why you must be 18 and older to buy one in the first place, the problem is you have parents who buy the guns and then do not watch how they are being used. I have seen people that just don't seem mature enough to be owning AEG's playing and it does cause some concern. I think it gives airsoft a bad name which could become a big problem. I am not saying people under 18 should not play, but I think they should be told and it be enforced on how and when to use the guns. One thing I hope to gain by playing (especially with the military personell that we have on the team) is a knowledge of military tactics. Makes the sport more meaningfull:) Just my 2 cents:)

 

Here in the US the Chinese clones are not that much cheaper so to me I don't think it is worth the saving of $50-70. But I have always saved up for the things I wanted and have been able to get TM's and other nicer things because of this. I just have a thing with buying lesser quality merchandice that eates at me, to me it is better to save your money and buy quallity itams, maybe I am just a weird duck though:)