WE P08 Luger 4" Full Metal GBB

[Guinness]

WE P08 Luger

-4" Model-

Full Metal GBB

First Impressions and Short Review

Introduction

The Luger has long been a popular and appreciated firearm since Georg Luger applied for the design patent on his handgun in 1898.

The weapon served the German military in both the world wars and was considered a prized war trophy by returning allied soldiers in both engagements.

From Wiki:

"The Luger uses a toggle-lock action, which utilizes a jointed arm to lock, as opposed to the slide actions of almost every other semi-automatic pistol. The mechanism is explained as follows: after a round is fired, the barrel and toggle assembly (both locked together at this point) travel rearward due to recoil. After moving roughly one-half inch (13 mm) rearward, the toggle strikes a cam built into the frame, causing the knee joint to hinge and the toggle and breech assembly to unlock. At this point the barrel stops its rearward movement (it impacts the frame), but the toggle and breech assembly continue moving (bending the knee joint) due to momentum, extracting the spent casing from the chamber and ejecting it. The toggle and breech assembly subsequently travel forward (under spring tension) and the next round from the magazine is loaded into the chamber. The entire sequence occurs in a fraction of a second.

In World War I, as submachine guns were found to be effective in trench warfare, experiments with converting various types of pistols to machine pistols (Reihenfeuerpistolen, literally "rapid-fire pistols") were conducted. Among those the Luger pistol (German Army designation Pistole 08) was examined; however, unlike the Mauser C96, which was converted in great numbers to Reihenfeuerpistole, the Luger proved to have an excessive rate of fire in full-automatic mode...."


"Though the Luger pistol was first introduced in 7.65x22mm Parabellum, it is notable for being the pistol for which the 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge was developed..."

"The P.08 was the usual sidearm for German Army personnel in both world wars, though it was being replaced by the Walther P38 starting in 1938. In 1930, Mauser took over manufacture of the P.08 (until 1943). The Swiss Army evaluated the Luger pistol in 7.65 mm P (.30 Luger in USA) and adopted it in 1900 as its standard sidearm, designated Ordonnanzpistole 00 or OP00, in 1900.


The Luger pistol was accepted by the German Navy in 1904, and in 1908 (as Pistole 08) by the German Army (chambered in 9x19mm Parabellum) replacing the Reichsrevolver. The Lange Pistole 08 or Artillery Luger had a stock and longer barrel, and sometimes used with a 32 round drum magazine (Trommelmagazin 08).

The United States evaluated several semi-automatic pistols in the late 1800s, including the Colt M1900, Steyr Mannlicher M1894, and an entry from Mauser. In 1900 the US purchased 1000 7.65 mm Lugers for field trials. Later, a small number were sampled in the then-new, more powerful 9 mm round. Field experience with .38 caliber revolvers in the Philippines and ballistic tests would result in a requirement for still-larger rounds.

In 1906, the US Army held trials for a large-caliber semi-automatic. After initial trials, DWM, Savage, and Colt were asked to provide further samples for evaluation. DWM withdrew for reasons that are still debated, though the Army did place an order for 200 more samples.

Although obsolete in many ways, the Luger is still sought after by collectors both for its sleek design, superlative accuracy, great durability, and by its connection to Imperial and Nazi Germany. Limited production of the P.08 by its original manufacturer resumed when Mauser refurbished a quantity of them in 1999 for the pistol's centenary. More recently, Krieghoff announced the continuation of its Parabellum Model 08 line with 200 examples at $15,950.00 apiece. The Luger was prized by Allied soldiers during both of the World Wars. Thousands were taken home during both wars, and are still in circulation today..."

The Replica

First off, I have to say that WE has come a long way in terms of product presentation and quality since the original 1911 clones we had a couple of years back- Not that the clone 'Hi-Capa' and 'Dragon' guns were not quality, but the packaging and presentation of the product itself by WE has improved a great deal in my opinion.

As you can see in the picture of the inside of the box, the gun ships with what appears to be an extra hammer spring and three assorted allen wrenches. An informative, easy to read 14 page manual is included.

The WE replica P08 Luger seems to be a pretty faithful clone in full metal of the Tanaka Works Luger. The Luger is certainly a popular weapon among Airsofters and news of WE producing this gun was met with a great deal of anticipation.

Let's see how WE has done on this icon of WWII sidearms.

As you can see in the image with the 1911, WE has produced a unique magazine for the Luger. It is still basically the same magazine used in the Tanaka (BTW a licensed Western Arms ''Magna' blowback system), with the usual WE feed hole in the front of the magazine. Also visible in this picture is the bb barrel and muzzle of the P08. Here is one of my small annoyances with the otherwise spectacular WE offeriig: For some reason they have threaded the muzzle for a sliencer! However the large opening for the thread totally ruins the look (IMHO). The original Tanaka still wins in that respect.

The next image shows a closeup of the top of the gun and the markings that WE has included. They have decided to stamp the year '1915' there making this a WWI Luger. Since they did not replicate the other trademarks from the Tanaka, I wish they would have left the year off as well. Then at least I could have had an engraver do a '42' and 'byf' on the toggle to make it a WWII pistol. Oh well.

The Luger comes in the standard, matte black finish. The paint application is somewhat thin, and very minor use has already worn a couple of spots to expose the aluminum underneath. Rustoleum Flat Black 7578 is a good touch-up for those areas.

WE's Luger is an excellent replica of the venerable 9mm handgun. WWII enthusiasts have long dreamed of a full metal Luger and WE has definitely stepped up on this one. They have provided a much needed shot in the arm of period Airsoft war-gaming and at this price they position themselves to take full advantage of the increasing popularity of WWII era Airsoft games.

Stay tuned for Part II - Technical

[Guinness]

We P08 Luger

First Impressions and Short Review

Part II

Technical - Shooting - Appearance

Technical


Right then- you guys want to know all the nitty-gritty 'whats on the inside' stuff yes?

Ok, well a tear-down of the gun will have to do for now

Take down of the gun is very close to real steel. The first picture in the series shows the take-down lever in its locked position. Depress the level slightly while pushing the barrel group to the rear a bit and turn the lever down.

The second image shows the lever in the released position.

The third picture shows the side plate removed.

After removing the side plate, slide the barrel and receiver group forward and separate from pistol grip. The fourth picture shows the barrel and receiver removed.

As you now see, you have to disassemble the weapon to adjust the hop up.

That is as far as I have torn the gun down at this point.

Shooting Impressions


Ok- I still don't have a chrono- I know, it's criminal but that's a $100 bucks I can spend on guns so sue me ;D

Anyway, so purely scientific or not, here are my results:

First, the 'Coke Can Chrono' shows a complete puncture from 1" away using Green Gas. Then the 'Target Test' shows 13 out of 15 shots within a CD sized ring (4 10/16 inches) from 25 feet. So that's pretty reasonable in my book for a handgun. The two errant shots outside the circle are more likely shooter error than weapon in-accuracy.

The 'cool down' effect that plagues the early WE 1911 series seems to be absent here with the magazine providing me 25-30 shots per fill pretty consistently, even with some rapid fire mixed in. Decrease in pressure/power near the end of a mag is present although common for any gas gun.




Customization - Appearance


Well, you guys know me..... :

God forbid I keep a gun 'stock' and factory-fresh looking right? However in this instance the overall appearance of the WE Luger is so nice that its hard to do anything to change it. More on that later.

But I did think that grips needed some work right away.

WE Luger Grips - Black Plastic

Prep for grips

Right grip after sanding

Stay Tuned For Part III: Appearance - Customization

Edited January 27, 2008 by Guinness

[Guinness]

WE P08 Luger

First Impressions and Short Review

Part III

Appearance - Customization

In stock form the new WE full-metal Luger is great- almost too great to even need to mess with.



Of course thats never stopped me before

After looking at many, many real-steel Luger pictures I found what I thought was pretty representative of a common Luger.

That was my target- You see that even after all these years the gun still retains much of its original finish and shine.

Conclusion


I think Wei-Tech (WE) has an unadulterated hit on their hands with this one. I was a fan of thier 1911 line for offering variety and of course full metal goodness, but this new Luger represents a new level of quality and value for your Airsoft dollar.

At a little over $100 USD, the gun is half as much as it's plastic 'Put on a shelf and never use' Tanaka Works Father, as much as I love Tanaka's replica quality, the value here is plain to see.

As this brief review shows I have not fully torn the gun apart to look at upgrade potential, etc., but based on the initial fireline exercises, and the quality of the look and feel, this gun certainly puts a feather in the cap of WE and or SRC or whoever actually manufacturers this piece.

A definitive 'must-have' for any WWII German Airsoft Reenactor, or an excellent 'War Trophy' weapon for an Allied soldier- can you say 'Hoobes Luger' ?



Pros:

-Full Metal
-Green Gas Ready
-Excellent Fit and Finish
-Tanaka Works Clone
-Accuracy (as tested to this point)
-Good Gas Consumption
-Silencer Thread


Cons:

-Thinly applied paint
-Hopup adjustment requires gun disassembly
-Threaded Muzzle for silencer ruins muzzle appearance (IMHO)
-Weight: Could be too heavy for some
-Upgrade Potential?
-Wooden stock and snaildrum mag not avail yet

To achieve the proper 'blued' finish look, I applied a few coats of my old standby, silicone spray and just smoothed it in.



I got the 4" Luger from my good friends at Boomarms, usual excellent 2-day service to my door.

I plan on picking up the 6" version as well, and then waiting on the inevitable wooden sholder stock and snaildrum mag accessories!

My thanks to Johnny at Boomarms, WE and Arnies

Slainte!

Edited January 27, 2008 by Guinness

[BigAl]

NIce review as usual. Another gun goes on my list.

[Chris North]

Awesome.

 

You mention a thread for a suppressor, but where? Do you remove the end of the barrel, or is it an inner-style thread, like an MP5k? A suppressed Luger sounds kind of cool.

[Hvy gear]

I'm pretty sure it's an internal threaded barrel similar to the MP5k, look closely at the muzzle in the 7th picture down.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Hvy gear

[Wege]

I understand that the grips are hollow.

Do you intend to fill them with something to give them a lack of compression closer to bakelite?

[DarkLite]

Goddamnit, I told myself I didn't need one of these and now I do.

 

Guinness, you ######.

[Romulus]

Very nice review.

 

I am impressed at how well this gun seems to be designed and built. I may have to add it to my list.

[Munitions Man]

Ah yes. As usual a great in depth review from Guinness. Great job!

 

Man I really need to get this luger, I've always loved Lugers but didn't want to shell out the cash for the Tanaka. This is great news!

[CrazyJ]

damn now I want one because of you!

[Guinness]

I understand that the grips are hollow.

Do you intend to fill them with something to give them a lack of compression closer to bakelite?

 

 

The plastic stock grips are very rigid actually.

 

I am hoping to find some real wood grips that aren't too expensive for the gun.

 

 

 

The kudos goes to WE in my opinion for bringing this weapon to the community. let's start asking for a full metal S&W 4506 or maybe a Browning Hi Power? A Tokarev would also be nice.

[r.ocelot]

The kudos goes to WE in my opinion for bringing this weapon to the community. let's start asking for a full metal S&W 4506 or maybe a Browning Hi Power? A Tokarev would also be nice.

Or even some of the compact 40xx's would be nice. If they start popping out FM BHP's, I doubt there would be much reason to get a Tanaka and a Prime kit left.

[snowman]

Unless quality is what you're after...

 

I've yet to see one of these Lugers, but I'd be amazed if they were as good as a Prime kitted Tanaka.

 

Just from the photos I can see that the finish and quality of metal in the toggle is much better on the Tanaka.

 

Cheers.

Edited January 28, 2008 by snowman

[Mobius Strip]

Guinness - fantastic review, pictures and tweaking of the WE P08 - well done, a first class job!

[Utty]

Yeah, pretty awesome review - but get a chrono, man! I know it's 100 bucks you could have spent on a gun, but an airsofter needs a chrono.

Because, you wrote that "the 'Coke Can Chrono' shows a complete puncture from 1" away using Green Gas." In the picture there is a hole in the bottom of the gan. This translates into insane fps. That can't be right, surely?

 

In any case, seems like one hell of a gun, surprisingly.

[Sale]

An accurate measurement or not, piercing the bottom of a coke can is something you are unlikely to achieve below 300 fps. Which means this pistol has a very nice power.

 

-Sale

[Operator]

NIce review, I really need to get registered so I can buy new guns...

[Utty]

An accurate measurement or not, piercing the bottom of a coke can is something you are unlikely to achieve below 400 fps. Which means this pistol is nuts.

 

-Sale

Fixed. But surely it must be a mistake? Guinness, can you clarify this matter?

[smilingknafe]

yes i would be interessted in the fps too! as darklite i was telling myself i don't need a luger in may repertoire.

 

but thanks to your excellent review i want one now!

 

great review, thanks man

[Guinness]

I'll see if she rips through another pop can-

 

Urban Legend check- I was told by my gun Dr., that actually the top of a soda can is tougher than the bottom- can anybody confirm this? He told me that the bottom of a can is just stretched and extruded aluminum, the same as the sides and rest of the can- but the top lid is actually aircraft grade aluminum. Is that true? Has anyone tested the puncture properties of a soda can top?

 

Ohandyeah.....any retailers or dealers out there, if you want me to review your chrono product, I'll be happy too

 

 

I've yet to see one of these Lugers, but I'd be amazed if they were as good as a Prime kitted Tanaka. -Snowman

 

Well yeah- I would expect a kit that cost what, $600 bucks? to be pretty high quality

 

 

WE's $100 price point entry on these gives Prime a whole bunch of room to move to capture some of that 'higher quality' market if they want- I could see a $300 kit for the Tanaka's or even these WE's with full trades being a popular product depending on how many units WE sells of these- I expect this to be a pretty popular item. We'll see if Prime moves to capture some of that momentum or if they miss the opportunity.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Guinness

[my_plague_666]

The kudos goes to WE in my opinion for bringing this weapon to the community. let's start asking for a full metal S&W 4506 or maybe a Browning Hi Power? A Tokarev would also be nice.

 

i think they should stick with WW1/2 for their next gun. come on full metal blowback C96.

[Utty]

Urban Legend check- I was told by my gun Dr., that actually the top of a soda can is tougher than the bottom- can anybody confirm this? He told me that the bottom of a can is just stretched and extruded aluminum, the same as the sides and rest of the can- but the top lid is actually aircraft grade aluminum. Is that true? Has anyone tested the puncture properties of a soda can top?

Well I find the Redwolf results to be pretty consistent with my own tests.

~310 fps Hi-Capa: penetrates one side of can and breaks other side, but BB stays inside can.

~340 fps KSC M9: flies straight through both sides of can, puts a dent in bottom.

~400 fps dboys AK: barely penetrates bottom (some cans get penetrated, others don't).

~550 fps VSR (at 6 meters range): always penetrates bottom, both center and edge. Puts a dent in top of can.

[Guinness]

i think they should stick with WW1/2 for their next gun. come on full metal blowback C96.

 

 

I hear ya, but we already have a few of those- I mean we have the plastic Marushin 8mm GBB version, and a very nice HFC Full metal NBB (With full trades if you snagged one of the early ones) so IMHO that segment is pretty well represented.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the M712, but even if we had a full metal, GBB version we would then just realize why the gun fell out of favor in the first place- Absolutely wicked hammer bite from the action will tear the webby part of your hand to shreds.

 

But I do agree with ya on the 'Focus on WWI or WWII' request- Let's see a nice full-metal P38 based on the Maruzen or how about a Radom based on a reworked 1911, and of course a Tokarev has been long awaited in the Russian reenactor circles.

 

I went through the Tanaka recent lineup this weekend thinking "Well, if WE started cloning the Tanaka line, what would I want next?" and other than revolvers, about the only thing that doesn't already exist in a full metal version by another maker would be the Hi-Power and frankly, until a better GBB design for the HP comes out, I'd rather not see the Tanaka system replcated.

 

The world of full-metal revolvers opens up a whole range of possibilities that make me giddy- First off us 'period Airsoft-enactors' need a proper Webley or Enfield! Then pretty much the entire Tanaka line I would be up for- M15s, M29's all of those!

[BigAl]

Oooh, full metal M29-2 6.5", Go ahead make my day!

Edited January 28, 2008 by BigAl