One Can Never Have Too Much Ammo

[airsofter0866]

I usually cary 6 100rd mids, one hi-cap and a speedloader and it lasts me most of the day (10-4)

[Jimisin73]

"I don't see a correlation between hicaps and spray-and-praying."

 

Well I'm sorry, but I do.

This may be due to differing definitions of spray n pray, so I'll outline my definition:

 

Spray n' Pray, the tendency for airsoft players with very large ammo capacities and no need to reload frequently, to simply point in the vague direction of the target, hold the trigger down until they've fired 50+ rounds, and then scream "take ur hitz N00b!!!!1111one11!!" without giving any consideration to the fact that they have been firing at an unocccupied bush for 10 minutes.

 

I know that this covers more than just the ammo carriage issue, but it brings up a simple point, it's utterly false to say that there's no correlation between spray n pray and hicaps, for the simple reason that you cannot spray n pray with real/low/midcaps it's impossible, because you have to reload too frequently.

This means that close to 100% of spray n prayers are using hicaps/box mags.

This also does not mean that 100% of hicap users are spray n prayers, however in my experience it's about 66%, your experience may vary.

 

In my opinion that is the correlation proven in one direction, in the other direction it is less certain, but still likely to be true.

 

 

Sorry, but back to your intro to scientific method class my friend: Correlation does not imply causation

 

I stand by my statement above... milsim is all about attitude, not equipment

 

 

 

[DarkLite]

"I don't see a correlation between hicaps and spray-and-praying."

 

Well I'm sorry, but I do.

This may be due to differing definitions of spray n pray, so I'll outline my definition:

 

Spray n' Pray, the tendency for airsoft players with very large ammo capacities and no need to reload frequently, to simply point in the vague direction of the target, hold the trigger down until they've fired 50+ rounds, and then scream "take ur hitz N00b!!!!1111one11!!" without giving any consideration to the fact that they have been firing at an unocccupied bush for 10 minutes.

 

I know that this covers more than just the ammo carriage issue, but it brings up a simple point, it's utterly false to say that there's no correlation between spray n pray and hicaps, for the simple reason that you cannot spray n pray with real/low/midcaps it's impossible, because you have to reload too frequently.

This means that close to 100% of spray n prayers are using hicaps/box mags.

This also does not mean that 100% of hicap users are spray n prayers, however in my experience it's about 66%, your experience may vary.

 

In my opinion that is the correlation proven in one direction, in the other direction it is less certain, but still likely to be true.

 

It's obvious you're not a scientist, hmm? Correlation is does not mean causation, as Jimisin quite rightly said.

 

What I said was that I believe there is no correlation between hicaps and SnPing. IE: Just cos you have a hicap, it doesn't necessarily mean you're a SnPer.

 

In the same way that just because you own a car doesn't mean you run people over. Yes, you couldn't run people over if you didn't have a car, but simply owning and using a car does not place you in the "HURR PEDESTRIANS MAKE GOOD SPLAT" demographic.

[mulletsown]

using my ump i carry 3 high-caps. I would run a all standard mag kit, but the mags are $25.00 and for $5 i can get 500 more rounds. Also single mag pouches are around $20 so its easier for me to use the high caps. I can load all three and only use about 1 1/2 during the day.

[Murph]

"HURR PEDESTRIANS MAKE GOOD SPLAT"

Quote of the Year!

[Catman]

"I don't see a correlation between hicaps and spray-and-praying."

 

Well I'm sorry, but I do.

This may be due to differing definitions of spray n pray, so I'll outline my definition:

 

Spray n' Pray, the tendency for airsoft players with very large ammo capacities and no need to reload frequently, to simply point in the vague direction of the target, hold the trigger down until they've fired 50+ rounds, and then scream "take ur hitz N00b!!!!1111one11!!" without giving any consideration to the fact that they have been firing at an unocccupied bush for 10 minutes.

 

lol and putting a hi-cap in your mag causes this sort of behaviour? If I put in a real-cap in my M4 do I get an uncontrollable urge to dress up as Delta Force?

[Murph]

lol and putting a hi-cap in your mag causes this sort of behaviour? If I put in a real-cap in my M4 do I get an uncontrollable urge to dress up as Delta Force?

 

 

No, you need an Uzi:

 

[Stealthbomber]

I've seen people spray & prayng with locaps. Guess that's the end of that theory.

 

Personally, I tend to use hicaps in woodland where the noise isn't a big deal and I use only midcaps in CQB.

I have swapped to a MOLLE rig this year so I can standardise my load-out irrespective of what gun I field. I currently carry 8 mags (M16, MP5, G3 or M14) which will usually be 6 midcaps and a couple of hicaps in woodland. In CQB I'll either be doing my Splinter Cell thing with summat like 6 M16 midcaps or, if I'm lazy, I'll be tooled-up with my P90 and a couple of hicaps.

 

[niko.90]

In my area most of players have hicaps, but there arent much spray n pray-guys. Personally I carry 7 lowcaps with M4 or 4 TM mags with AK, and its enough for me.

[lawofthirds]

I've definitely seen a correlation between highcaps and spraying. Mostly I think it can be attributed to the players who haven't developed trigger control who just happen to have the highcap magazine from their echo1/JG starter set and no other magazines.

 

I use 8 Mag brand 100 round mags (7 in vest, 1 in the gun) and either a 300 round VFC highcap (I really wish they would make metal bodied HK style mags in a midcap size) or a 470 round speedloader, depending on my team makeup. Usually there's always someone near me who sprays and prays and runs out of ammo early so I carry the speedloader if most of my team isn't using STANAGS and the highcap if they are.

 

For CQB: I use a Tanaka S&W M500 loaded with ~10 rounds per reload, so I just carry the gun and a single pistol sized speedloader.

[greg]

I would say that Hi-caps encourage 'hosing'. That's obvious, theres more ammo!

 

But that shouldn't be confused with spray & pray, where the firer isn't aiming correctly, or at all.

 

I think that whatever mag you have , you are either the type of person who knows how to aim, or you ain't.

 

 

Greg.

[ruger13]

oh my god, i am surprized on how many players actually like to use hicap magazines, on my team the vote is unanimous, hicap is a useless piece of *beep*, i read some pages ago that one player carried 9 hicaps with him into a fight, he must sound like a thunderstorm moving through a woodland area. Anyway i guess people can do what they like (espesially when it is a disadvantage for them) and i have yet to see a flawless feeding hicap mag

 

 

Oh and for me 5x 130 round midcap magazines, never ran out of ammo yet. But i will admitt youl need some serious trigger controll when you pass 16 players on the field

 

 

[greg]

oh my god, i am surprized on how many players actually like to use hicap magazines, on my team the vote is unanimous, hicap is a useless piece of *beep*, i read some pages ago that one player carried 9 hicaps with him into a fight, he must sound like a thunderstorm moving through a woodland area. Anyway i guess people can do what they like (espesially when it is a disadvantage for them) and i have yet to see a flawless feeding hicap mag

 

 

Oh and for me 5x 130 round midcap magazines, never ran out of ammo yet. But i will admitt youl need some serious trigger controll when you pass 16 players on the field

 

 

Oh my god, I am always surprised that someone actually believes, that just because their own team mates have a unanimous vote, it follows, that everybody else in the world will agree with them.

 

Especially when they're not American! (No offense to anyone from the US, I acknowledge that you are the worlds number one, ultimate, premier super power & I know my place in the lower stratas of world non-domination.)

 

 

Greg.

[Catman]

I play in wood/scrubland I've yet to be let down by a hi-cap making so much noise it's given my position away. Any noise a hicap makes doesn't travel as far as you think, you plodding around moving bushes/branches and breaking twigs underfoot is going to generate the most sound and give you away. Run and it'll make a lot of noise but again you'll be making more nosie than the bbs bouncing around anyway. Besides I know plenty of guys that have sneaked up behind people and gotten knife kills while having a hi-cap in their gun.

 

As for flawed feeding hi-caps? The TM ones are better, the clone brands can often need stripping, cleaning and a little silicone oil before they work ok. For the most part they're fine and they're about as much fuss as sorting out dodgy mid-caps.

[Belladonna]

i use star 30s in my m4... i regularly use less than 1000 rounds a day.. and i do get stuck in... i just dont shoot cans, walls, teammates, bushes for lols when bored...

R

[Jimisin73]

i use star 30s in my m4... i regularly use less than 1000 rounds a day.. and i do get stuck in... i just dont shoot cans, walls, teammates, bushes for lols when bored...

R

 

Spoken for truth Bella... I "waste" alot more ammo "dialing in my hop up" and screwing around before games than I do SnPing...

 

I also think we need to be clear about what we a defining as SnPing.

 

When I use my SAW (or in the past when I was taking on the Support role, using another gun) I typically am not taking "aimed shots" at people.

My job, at that point is to use suppressive fire to deny the enemy that ability to move freely on the field. I could care less if I'm actually hitting anything as long as my fire is either: A. Keeping their heads down and fixing them in place, or B. Steering them toward my Assault element - it's those guys job to take them out with aimed shots.

 

That is NOT spray and praying,

 

That's basic tactics - Fire and Manuver

 

 

[Pablo]

There is no need for that much ammunition. Even for suppressive fire. At that point you're literally being a jerk. Its completely unnecessary for MilSim. You might want to start playing Paintball.

 

Then I'm a jerk, and so are most of the people on my site. There is more to airsoft than your own experience of it you know. I carry a 5000rnd boxmag on my M16 because I can't be bothered carrying a load of mags and changing them all day. Other people DO want to carry a load of locaps around all day and enjoy the realism of reloading. Great, more power to 'em, whatever works for 'em is fine by me. MilSim ain't my thing, and I'm not the only airsofter who feels the same.

 

I've pretty much made all of my points in the other thread. No need to restate them here. One last final statement though. The thing about having it, and not needing it. You need to learn to conserve ammunition, thats half of the fun of airsoft. Anyone can put enough downrange to hit something. It takes tactics, aiming, and everything that MilSim. No offense, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people refused to play with you if thats what you do.

 

See again, that's your opinion based on your experience and has nothing to do with the wider experience of airsofting that others enjoy week after week, year after year. Don't criticise others for having a different experience of airsoft to yourself, okay?

 

(I am talking to Murph, everyone else your load-outs are fine.)

 

Oh well that's okay then.

 

Oooooooooooooold subject folks.

[greg]

i use star 30s in my m4... i regularly use less than 1000 rounds a day.. and i do get stuck in... i just dont shoot cans, walls, teammates, bushes for lols when bored...

R

 

 

Excellent observational comedy, I see it all the time & think, "how 12 year old newb is that?" I suppose it's easier that shooting at something that moves & shoots back!

 

What ever floats their boat.

 

 

Greg.

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

In my opinion that is the correlation proven in one direction, in the other direction it is less certain, but still likely to be true.

 

No, you're correct, I am not a scientist, I'm an aircraft engineer, but I read quantum physics books on a regular basis, so I am more than familiar with the scientific method, and while correlation does not imply causation, the original point I was answering was that "I don't see a correlation between hicaps and spray-and-praying."

Therefore your complaint against my point is a straw-man argument, I wasn't trying to establish causation, only correlation, which I did.

Aside from that, causation isn't the issue, I never said that buying a hicap turns you into a SnPer, the connection that I was stating was that SnPers are going to be using hicaps, and that there are probably going to be more (on balance, and IMO) SnP hicappers than normal hicappers.

 

To answer the guy who said that he sees peope SnP with lowcaps, didn't it occur to you that they may not do so for long, as it is a self-defeating behaviour?

 

I'm a little concerned that a slightly lower level of SnP has become 'normal', at a game I went to the weekend before last I was adjusting my RDS when a marshall came up to me and asked me what I was up to.

When I told him he replied "why bother using the sight? most people here have them for looks, best way is to hold the trigger down and point the white stream at your target"

 

This was a marshall someone who I would expect to have experience in airsoft, and thus be aware that some players actually use sights, but he was deadly serious, and obviously thought me insane for using something as archaic and outdated as an aiming device.

[evansy]

oh my god, i am surprized on how many players actually like to use hicap magazines, on my team the vote is unanimous, hicap is a useless piece of *beep*, i read some pages ago that one player carried 9 hicaps with him into a fight, he must sound like a thunderstorm moving through a woodland area. Anyway i guess people can do what they like (espesially when it is a disadvantage for them) and i have yet to see a flawless feeding hicap mag

 

 

Oh and for me 5x 130 round midcap magazines, never ran out of ammo yet. But i will admitt youl need some serious trigger controll when you pass 16 players on the field

Before getting my mids I'd regularly carry 9 hicaps out into the field with me and I never once had my position given away by the mags rattling. If you fill them properly hicaps don't rattle. The only time a hicap should rattle is when its part full in your gun. Empty ones will be just that, empty with only the bbs in the feed left which dont rattle and full ones will be full and again wont rattle.

 

i just dont shoot cans, walls, teammates, bushes for lols when bored...

R

Yes you bloody well do.

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

I thought I'd comment on Pablo's post, because he's made a very good point, airsoft does cater for a variety of playing styles, and milsim is not the only one.

As I've said before elsewhere, the problem only arises when players want to force their own minority playing style on others.

This is exactly what SnP does.

If I choose to use 30rd realcaps at my local weekend game it doesn't affect anyone, nobody else is going to have their day ruined, or their enjoyment lessened because I'm using realcap mags, it's up to me and doesn't affect anyone else in a negative way.

Therefore I can maintain a loosely realistic style of play without bothering others (for the record I use 68rd lowcaps to compensate for the inaccuracy, but this is an example)

 

I would defy anyone on this forum to tell me that I'm not within my rights to do that, as I'm not upsetting anybody.

 

For comparison, lets say I turn up to a weekend game where most users are SnP with hicaps, but instead of using 30rd realcaps, I've got a rig setup holding 200,000rds in a backpack with a nitrogen cylinder to power a basic feeding and firing mechanism, firing at 100rds/sec.

I proceed to lumber around the site, never releasing the trigger, spraying everything in my path (at 328fps)

 

Would you or would you not say that I would be ruining other players enjoyment? I'd certainly say so!

So where exactly is the difference between the two scenarios?

The difference is that in the first scenario, my enjoyment is lessened.

In the second the hicap kiddies lose out.

 

In both scenarios someone is losing out to others who feel the need to have ludicrous ammo capacity, the only difference is that the second scenario would probably result in me being banned from the site, but that the first scenario happens in 4/5 games I go to.

The simple fact is that those of us who use lowcaps just grin and bear it, and even make a sport of prevailing under disadvantageous conditions, but why should we have to? after all, we aren't the ones being inconsiderate.

 

Honestly, maintain your individual playing style, but at least have a little consideration for others who may not want to hold the trigger down for 20 seconds at a time.

[Coldgunner]

I use hicaps out of laziness, I don't snp, mainly semi auto, but I like to know I've got plenty left.

[rhino]

when i had the SPAS12, i had over 29 shells which i'd take with me. Might not use them all in a game, then again i might. I bought 2 Hi-Caps and 2 standard mags to go with the Hi-Cap for my UMP and to this date i've only ever usd the one Hi-Cap. Down to personal preference really. Go with what you think you can be comfortable with.

[DecimusKrieg]

For comparison, lets say I turn up to a weekend game where most users are SnP with hicaps, but instead of using 30rd realcaps, I've got a rig setup holding 200,000rds in a backpack with a nitrogen cylinder to power a basic feeding and firing mechanism, firing at 100rds/sec.

I proceed to lumber around the site, never releasing the trigger, spraying everything in my path (at 328fps)

 

Sounds like a challenge! But seriously, I take your point. I'm not too fussed personally about what others carry ammo wise, but as you say, many people would be annoyed at that, and they've every right; airsoft is community based and consideration is nothing but a good thing. Personally, from my experience, many SnPers either don't last in the hobby (though their are plenty to take their place) or seem to get bored with the (often) lack of a challenge. That's not to say having a fair few hi caps or a drum mag isn't challenging, far from it, like I said, I not fussed what others use.

 

But yea, I usually just have four TMP 50 rd mags. Might invest in couple of the 30rd ones, just for a bit of a change, and a little extra ammo

 

Decimus.

 

[Stealthbomber]

For comparison, lets say I turn up to a weekend game where most users are SnP with hicaps, but instead of using 30rd realcaps, I've got a rig setup holding 200,000rds in a backpack with a nitrogen cylinder to power a basic feeding and firing mechanism, firing at 100rds/sec.

I proceed to lumber around the site, never releasing the trigger, spraying everything in my path (at 328fps)

 

Would you or would you not say that I would be ruining other players enjoyment? I'd certainly say so!

So where exactly is the difference between the two scenarios?

The difference is that in the first scenario, my enjoyment is lessened.

In the second the hicap kiddies lose out.

 

Ok, I think we've established that hosing without aiming is bad.

We've also established that morons use both hicaps and locaps and that decent people also use both kinds of mag.

 

OMG! WHAT A STUNNING REVELATION!!! WHO'D HAVE THUNK IT???!!!

 

So, with that out of the way, let's move on.

In Particular, Balberoth, you've made your point of view perfectly clear. Several times. Unless you have something to add, besides repeating yourself every time anybody posts to say they use hicaps, I'd appreciate it if you wound your neck back in a bit.

 

*EDIT*

Actually, I wanted to address that (rather extreme) example you gave.

You know what? I can honestly say that I have NEVER noticed what sort of mag a person shooting at me is using.

Sitting in the SZ before a game I will often see M4s or MP5s with boxmags and think "Uh Oh! I wonder what's going on here. In-game, however, I have never once, in over ten years, received fire from somebody that I thought was in any way "inappropriate".

 

Maybe it's because I shoot back, try to flank the opfor, slope away or do something besides sitting there timing the person to see how long they fire for. I dunno. Whatever the reason, I honestly have never once been in a position where I could distinguish the type of mag a player was using by the type of fire I receive.

 

Anybody else got a view on this?