One Can Never Have Too Much Ammo

[supportgunner]

I don't necessarily think that hicaps aren't milsim, so much as spraying-and-praying. If you carry a single hicap, and use 70 BBs in one game, that seems more milsim to me than somebody who empties 20 realcaps.

 

If I ever start using standard rifles in games, I guess I'll buy some realcaps though, as reloading in the middle of a firefight is pretty fun. The one time I've reloaded my SAW in an entire day of skirmishing happened to be when I was behind a tree half my width, and there was a guy with a classic L86 LSW shooting at me from well out of my range. And my battery was dead.

[Airsoftperson]

I really dislike box-magazines or C-Mags. Maybe because that's all the other people at my local field seem to use...

 

Anyway, I usually go out with just one hi-cap, and usually don't run out of ammo. I have run out while using my SR-16, but I have never with my M14.

[niust]

When you get shot before you finish your ammos. ^_*

not enough when you ran out before you get shot

[Walton_County_Firefighter]

For me it depends on the loadout. If I'm using my dboys spr its a cmag and one MAG hk-416 midcap as a last resort. Normal m16a4 I carry 8 MAG hk-416 midcaps. I mostly use midcaps because they are expendable and I can drop them in a firefight and not have to watch em on the way down.

[Beast06]

You use a freakin' c-mag on a Sniper Rifle?

 

WTF?!

 

You should be shot.

[Belladonna]

amongst other ######...

R

[Jimisin73]

Ok I've actually played with Murph, and I am one of the Western New York guys so let me weigh in:

 

1st: Just because one uses high cap's doesn't make one a spray and prayer - Airsoft ballistics being what they are, sometimes it takes a burst to do the job a single round would normally do... penetration of brush (we play almost exclusively outdoors at woodland ranges... our home field is 40 acres of streams, ravines, creeks, wetlands, ponds and hills), wind deflection at range etc. etc. etc.

 

2nd: I find it offensive that someone would believe that they have enough info to judge another player strictly on the information Murph gave in his first post.

 

Depending on the day, we can be in the field for as much as 6 or 8 hours without taking a break or re-crossing the property to get to our cars to reload... Typically we end up leaving the field only when a gun goes down.

 

For most "normal" games:

6 M4 High Caps + 1 in the gun

or

4 M14 High Caps and one or two Mid Caps

 

I also carry an extra bag of ammo (maybe 1500 to 2000 rounds) in my pack if we are going to be in the field the entire day... I like to have extra for my teammates or other players if they need it.

 

My preference for highcaps is this - I find them much easier to reload in the field. Additionally, at times I carry both the m14 and an M4 out to the field, and stash my backup in case my primary goes down... if I run out of ammo for one, it's easy to transfer ammo from one highcap to another.

 

Notice that nowhere have I discussed what "style" of play we pursue, so how can one judge how "milsim" we play...

 

 

 

 

[BaggyPants]

M4A1 with 3 x 300rd hicaps (but I very rarely get onto the second mag), plus the Glock with 4 x 29rd magazines.

[DarkLite]

Ok I've actually played with Murph, and I am one of the Western New York guys so let me weigh in:

 

1st: Just because one uses high cap's doesn't make one a spray and prayer - Airsoft ballistics being what they are, sometimes it takes a burst to do the job a single round would normally do... penetration of brush (we play almost exclusively outdoors at woodland ranges... our home field is 40 acres of streams, ravines, creeks, wetlands, ponds and hills), wind deflection at range etc. etc. etc.

 

2nd: I find it offensive that someone would believe that they have enough info to judge another player strictly on the information Murph gave in his first post.

 

Depending on the day, we can be in the field for as much as 6 or 8 hours without taking a break or re-crossing the property to get to our cars to reload... Typically we end up leaving the field only when a gun goes down.

 

For most "normal" games:

6 M4 High Caps + 1 in the gun

or

4 M14 High Caps and one or two Mid Caps

 

I also carry an extra bag of ammo (maybe 1500 to 2000 rounds) in my pack if we are going to be in the field the entire day... I like to have extra for my teammates or other players if they need it.

 

My preference for highcaps is this - I find them much easier to reload in the field. Additionally, at times I carry both the m14 and an M4 out to the field, and stash my backup in case my primary goes down... if I run out of ammo for one, it's easy to transfer ammo from one highcap to another.

 

Notice that nowhere have I discussed what "style" of play we pursue, so how can one judge how "milsim" we play...

 

Exactly. As much as the milsimmers don't want to admit it, realcaps are useless.

 

I mean, fine, if we're talking Real Steel, then yes, 20 rounds in each G3 mag is acceptable - especially since I'd have an effective range of nearly 800m and be able to punch through a brick wall at that distance.

 

In Airsoft it's stupid. Even at 400fps, a single bb will have difficulty keeping on a straight path, never mind going through leaves, branches etc.

[gunfighters]

i carry MAG 100 round mags, "real caps" are a bit to real for me.. the 100 is a nice mix of not running out too soon and still have to change mags. the fact is we play to have fun, and most people think its fun to shoot

 

people always bring up "bb don't go strait" and other reastions for needing more ammo in a "real" milsim load out.. citing "eftive range" brush and what not.. when in fact to be "real" we could carry less ammo as the advrage player shoots much less ammo on a round to kill bases compared to RS conflicts

face it milsim IS spray an pray

in WWII the US expended 25,000 rounds per enemy kia

Korea was 50,000

and by Vietnam when almost every solder got to "rock and roll" it was 200,000

whens the last time you went threw even 1000 round and didn't get @ least one kill

no don't get me wrong, I would love a 30rnd starmag only game...but that dosen't mean I won't slap in my D-boys 1000rnd ak "hicap" for a fast pick up game

 

[Jimisin73]

Don't get me wrong guys... I sometimes go whole games only going through 1/2 a mag or less, but when it's really a PITA to get back to the car, and your staging area is 1/2 mile away over rough ground highcaps seem to make a hell of a lot more sense.

 

We do have events where we only allow "real caps", but we also use a different hit system with medics, weighted armor and hit points and what not, so it makes more sense... but that's a whole different thing.

 

 

Airsoft sometimes needs to be a balance between "realism" and the limitations of our equipment... Highcaps or Midcaps can help.

 

I would guess that if I played at a smallish site (in square footage), or indoors in a CQB environment, I might be a bit more sensitive to the whole highcap / drum mag spray and pray issue, but truth be told, on our land and in most of our engagements there is so much distance and cover in between you and your target that unless you hit with your first burst, it's pretty easy to evade and slip away. I think it's a heck of alot more cat and mouse than CQB...

[Jimisin73]

I built this for you guys:

 

Not just a clone with a clone box mag, but also with a WTF way over forum limit spring in there... I can only get it to cycle well with a 9.6 large in a battery sling

 

 

Sorry guys, couldn't resist...

[Abelius]

I love thinking of the V2 gearbox shell that cycles through that thing. It's only a matter of time.

[greg]

Yeah, I think I know what you are driving at.

 

Airsoft is pretty diverse & I enjoy both ends of the spectrum.

 

I've played entire days without getting a shot off, & the 'purists' are going to bang on about airsoft not being about all out hose fests. I believe there is a place for both, & love to have the odd full on hi-cap-go-nuts-until-your 12v4300 is flat nut outs, as much as "I've got a Vsr & 50 rounds, so I'd better make 'em count".

 

On the Nut out days, I think nothing of taking 5000 rounds out into a half hour-re spawn type cqb game. With a rof around 1500rpm, doing a battery's worth in twenty minutes of fury & glory is easily done.

 

 

Greg.

[DarkLite]

I love thinking of the V2 gearbox shell that cycles through that thing. It's only a matter of time.

 

My CYMA Ver2 GB shell in my MP-16 has seen about 100,000 rounds at 1J, the last 80,000 being delivered at 30rps, but the bugger REFUSES to break. Pistons however, I have gone through about 5...

[Jimisin73]

That A&K Box is similar... I built it for one event with the hope that it would last through the weekend, and it's still going strong 6 months later. Granted, it's not my primary and the grip does get hot enough to blister the krylon, but it still works...

 

 

Now back on topic:

 

For UR Games (Ultra Realistic) I generally carry no more than a max of 10 real caps or 300 rounds for my primary... many times significantly less.

 

I guess it all just boils down to picking the right tool for the job

[screamin_weasel]

at the moment, it depends what gun i use. ive got 8 midcaps for my mp5, 6 VN mids and a STAR 250 round mini hi-cap for my CAR15, 2 G36 hicaps, one AK47 hi-cap, and a box mag for the minimi.

 

so for the CAR15, MP5 and G36, which are my main guns, thats an average of 8-900 rounds. of which i may use half or more likely less in a game. theres been days where ive only used 300-odd rounds, or one day when i blatted 60-70k through my minimi. those days are long though haha. next thing is mid-caps for the g36, the ak is just a loner, so hicaps are better.

 

i much prefer using mid-caps. the act of reloading mid-game is such a small thing, but makes a big difference to the feel of your game. im probably just short of enough space to use low-caps on my rig, so mids are the perfect thing, just incase the game goes on a bit longer, or i get itchy fingers.

 

as for whoever it was who said they'd rather have too much than not enough, thats not for me. the idea of knowing that 6 or 7 mags in ive got to start thinking about my ammo usage, and contemplating having just a pistol is another big element of the game for me. unfortunately, sometimes i think about it too much and only use 200 rounds in 4 hours of gaming or something.

[Manxmadman]

4 M4 hi-caps, it's pretty rare I'll shoot through a 2nd mag in game. The 4th is actual a reserve mag.

 

Though I was once in a game where some guy on the opposite team fired of 8 G36 hicaps in a single game. We may not be milsimmers down at our site but we got a kick out of that one

 

It really depends on how biased the site is, if you turn up and everyone has box mags you're in for a hard time if you only packed real-caps. But turn up to a site with some hi-caps and everyone is using low or real-caps you're branded an idiot or 'n00b'.

 

though the old adage is true: you can never have too much ammo; the more you have the more you shoot

 

 

Ahh the memories, I remember that one, at the same time me and Rob walked back talking about how much ammo we'd got through, as in 6 or 7 MAG midcaps, then he came up and said he'd used 8 G36 hicaps, and all should bear in mind that this was within about a 30 minute game, so 3760 rounds in 30 minutes, and the guy managed to hit 2 people in the whole game..... thats just excessive in the extreme.

 

Usually I run with either 8 M4 midcaps, when my sodding M4 works, which was a rarity, need to get that bugger fixed. For the MP5 I'd run 8 STAR mags (I got carried away in a defense game and was just dropping mags on the floor and lost 2 of them....me=*albartroth*) and then with the G36 its either 5 STAR 30 rounds (because I can't carry that many due to size of mags) or just one G36 hi cap if its a quick, warm up game, or *albartroth* around.

 

I'd much prefer a game site where everyone appreciates ammo usage, and that more is not better - although I don't really care how they carry those rounds, just not to use them all within 30 mins of a game then have to reload them ALL again.

[DarkLite]

That A&K Box is similar... I built it for one event with the hope that it would last through the weekend, and it's still going strong 6 months later. Granted, it's not my primary and the grip does get hot enough to blister the krylon, but it still works...

 

Heh - I need to replace my motor in my MP16 after one game - defend the fort. It ended up being three of us holding out against 12 enemies. Borrowed a box mag and proceeded to hold the fort on my own whilst the

other two tried to flank and ambush the enemies - which failed.

 

The final line of cover before the fort was an array of barrel-based walls, which made delightfully loud clangs as I shot them.

 

I got tabbed in the end when they all assaulted at once, but suppressing 12 people at once with 30 clangs-per-second is something that you can't really ever explain - it's just that awesome.

 

That being said, the 5000rnd boxmag ran out of ammo in about 3 minutes, and at that point the grip on my MP16 was so hot I couldn't hold it properly. Opened her up to find that the brushes on the motor were glowing.

[camilion705]

I carry 13 g36 TM standards with me, but I normally don't use more than 3 mags in a 30 minute long game, unless something extraordinary happens...

 

I hate feeling like I might run out of ammo.

[Battle Brother]

i use 5 hi caps for my m4 thats loads

[greg]

I carry 13 g36 TM standards with me, but I normally don't use more than 3 mags in a 30 minute long game, unless something extraordinary happens...

 

I hate feeling like I might run out of ammo.

 

 

When you say standards, do you mean lo-caps (65 rnd)? & if so, I guess you are mil-simming, so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,do you add lead to the 13 mags to make them 'just like the real thing'?

 

 

Greg.

[evansy]

What mags I use all depends on who I'm up against. Sunday was a prime example, In the morning I took out my freshly built M4 and 7 mids but by lunch I was using my M14 with 6 hicaps (440 rounds) and why was that? simple when you have to empty 50+ rounds into people before they take their hits and theres a team of around 5 people doing the same thing mags dont last very long.

Generally speaking tho if I have a good gun (rare atm as 90% of my guns are work in progress) and honest opponents I never need more than about 500 rounds per session and when I have a great gun I need even less (I've gone a whole day on about 250 rounds before)

That said game days with over 300 players all going for the same objectives I'll be taking as many hicaps as I can and maybe even my Cmag.

 

I don't see a correlation between hicaps and spray-and-praying.

+1 for that.

[balberoth-the-destroyer]

"I don't see a correlation between hicaps and spray-and-praying."

 

Well I'm sorry, but I do.

This may be due to differing definitions of spray n pray, so I'll outline my definition:

 

Spray n' Pray, the tendency for airsoft players with very large ammo capacities and no need to reload frequently, to simply point in the vague direction of the target, hold the trigger down until they've fired 50+ rounds, and then scream "take ur hitz N00b!!!!1111one11!!" without giving any consideration to the fact that they have been firing at an unocccupied bush for 10 minutes.

 

I know that this covers more than just the ammo carriage issue, but it brings up a simple point, it's utterly false to say that there's no correlation between spray n pray and hicaps, for the simple reason that you cannot spray n pray with real/low/midcaps it's impossible, because you have to reload too frequently.

This means that close to 100% of spray n prayers are using hicaps/box mags.

This also does not mean that 100% of hicap users are spray n prayers, however in my experience it's about 66%, your experience may vary.

 

In my opinion that is the correlation proven in one direction, in the other direction it is less certain, but still likely to be true.

[swannie_2006]

Um..

 

Since I am not really a big fan of hi-caps I currently carry 12 100 rnd mid-caps plus one 130 rnd in the gun. That is 1330 rnd. I am still at th phase where I just love the sound and the "recoil" of my gun so I tend to overkill.

 

I guess it will change in time.

 

Oh, and usually that ammunition is enough for 30 minutes.