Western Arms M4 CQB-R

[uscmCorps]

Hmm Inokatsu just has three video release about it, They actually talk about it (Chinese only) Looks like the accuracy is crazy accurate without any cool down using the burst they are doing. However I they didnt show any bolt stop right now makes me think that they probably is having durability problem with bolt catch aswell

I have yet to see a video of the Inokatsu shooting all 50 rounds at once.

[kullwarrior]

kinda obv that they have cool down as well, but its seems to be less than wa's

[junior]

I have to say this:

 

You replace the front end because the stock one looks like ######. You're going to replace the upper and lower receiver with a metal one. The stock and grip both get replaced because they look like plain ######. The internal pieces to get replaced; hop-up collar, bolt stop, bolt, hammer, hammer spring, buffer and spring, inner barrel, and misc parts that need to be steel.

 

Oh and the magazine leaks like a siv.

 

So I ask. What the *fruitcage* did we pay $600 for?! A couple springs and screws?

 

This gun is worth $200-300 tops. No more then a 1911... Sure it has more metal and plastic content, but not enough to justify the price...Not at all.

 

Don't get me wrong though. I love the gun. I just don't think it's worth the money I paid for it. Sure all these things can get fixed or replaced, but for $600, WA shouldn't have tried so hard to be the first damn ones out and put more R&D into their product. It's almost like you're getting a WE or KJW quality.

 

I'm definitely a WA fanboy and have sworn by their superiority for years, but I am truly not impressed with the quality of the WA M4 at all…

Edited July 25, 2008 by junior

[TooTall]

You're absolutely right Junior. Spot on.

 

That's why I will order a new GBB M4 from you. Since you are able to make a completely new kind of replica for a mere 250USD. That's awesome! But then again, I would expect the price to be low. After all, you had the luck of having a company like Western Arms sticking their neck and reputation out, just so other companies will make a replica of a replica.

 

I do get your point, if you're so bothered about the price, wait half a year and get the Chinese knockoff

[Inq Eisenhorn]

TooTall

 

You're not being fair, Junior has a point, and its one that many people have commented on. In answer to Junior, if you get the WA M4, like any other rifle (AEG, etc) you have the option to change out the parts, theres nothing saying you have to. Sure, there are issues with robustness, but if you stick to the stock rifle and only change parts that need replacing, WHEN they need replacing then the $600 might be justified.

 

In truth, if you're looking at buying a WA M4 but don't like the front end, want to change the upper and lower reciever, and decide you have to change the pistol grips etc...then its simple, don't buy the gun. Personally, I don't intend to do anything to my WA M4, and I'll use it as standard until it breaks and then replace the parts that need replacement.

[TooTall]

It's called sarcasm I could have made a beautifully logic explanation like yourself in the 2nd paragraph of your post, or I could do a half arsed attempt at taking the ###### out. But well said!

[junior]

I believe you missed my point TooTall. I don't mind paying $600 or even $1000 for a quality replica.

 

I do have a problem paying $600 for the WA M4.

 

What would you do if you bought a brand new x-box, went home played with it for a few hours...then in the middle of a game then the damn thing overheated and stopped working?! Would you be ######? Anyone would!! You would expect a company to spend a bit more time testing their product to make sure all the quirks (or at least most of them) are worked out before they hit the shelf.

 

Isn't this why people buy TM or CA over JG and dboys? Dont they expect quality out of a TM or CA product?

 

If the WA M4 is like this, I wonder how bad the Chinese knockoff is going to be. One could only imagine.

 

And BTW I already own this gun, so I am 100% allowed to pass my own judgment. I also will be buying the Chinese knockoff if and when it comes out, and I'm sure I'll be buying the Inokatsu as well.

 

*Now because this gun developed so many problems early on in it's stock form I'm picking on things that I shouldn’t be (like the front end, grips and stock). I am fully aware that some people are happy with guns in stock form, and some people (like myself) upgrade the ###### out of a gun right out of the box.

 

[uscmCorps]

Personally, I kind of regret investing as much money as I have into the WA M4. And unless the Inokatsu has something about it that allows it to perform as consistently as I require, I'm going to avoid investing any more money into these types of guns. Regardless of how things look and work... ultimately I just want something that has excellent performance (range, accuracy, able to shoot without crazy cool down). So far, the WA M4 isn't it (for me anyway).

Edited July 25, 2008 by uscmCorps

[TooTall]

Oh it's a valid point, I get it totally. But I do think that airsoft is not your average consumer product. No matter how good your product is, no matter how much stuff you change, or how much your gearbox is re-enforced, or how good the new hopup chamber is, the damned things break. Always. AEG, GBB, the lot. I stopped playing actively simply because everything breaks down/doesn't preform the way it should. That doesn't mean I redeem WA, they put a faulty product out there. But I do think airsoft replica's are so prone to breakdowns, you're inevitably going to refurbish the whole interior/exterior. Sad, but fact.

 

Fact is, WA is still a company. And they want to make as much money as possible. So as long as they have the sole mainstream GBB M4 on the market, people will pay for it. So they've cut corners and put the thing out there. Sure they could have spend x amount of time of QC more, and fixed some issues, but they didn't.

 

If we were sensible buyers, we would have waited. On the WA M4 V2. Or the Chinese knockoff. Or another brand. But we didn't, because we just couldn't resist. And we're paying for it!

[Inq Eisenhorn]

TooTall

 

True, but other companies and WA were probably looking hard at the sales figures for this rifle, and if it sold well, that would have been the business model for other companies to do something similar.

 

In other words, if people had followed your advice then WA and everyone else would have said, "hell, no one is buying these GBB rifles, so they must be happy with AEGs, lets drop this product!"...which means no WA M4 V2, and no clones and no Inokatsu.....

[BaBaBooey]

What would you do if you bought a brand new x-box, went home played with it for a few hours...then in the middle of a game then the damn thing overheated and stopped working?! Would you be ######?

 

I understand and respect your opinion, and a matter of fact agree with some of your points. However, what if there's a sticker on the X-Box that says you can only plug it into a wall with 110V, else you risk overheating and damage? However, you plug it into a 220V anyways and it over heats and breaks. Is it Microsoft's fault that it broke?

 

I don't have access to any high pressure gases so I'm restricted to 134A. All my magazines are fine, even my original plastic hop-up is fine. The only thing that I can consider a design flaw is the bolt stop as it got worn down fairly quickly.

 

I do agree that price tag is too steep considering most all of the external finish is poor.

 

 

[poison123]

[lewis hiscock]

is there actually any news of an ACM manufacturer considering a clone of the WA?

 

as junior stated if your replacing alsmot the whole gun,,, i figure you may aswell get the cheap chinese one and

save some cash.

 

 

[Inq Eisenhorn]

I think they are talking about the WE version that is "about" to be released.....I think.

 

Although, its also been stated that the WE is going to be a similar price ....so maybe they really are waiting for a clone to come out.

[IBICO]

Anyone buying this WA M4 are not planning on using it as your primary main gun are you?.. When I would buy this soon it probably would be like my third one that I have just for show and some times when I am playing CQB.

 

My main problem is to have LOW enough fps on this.. because it seems almost everyone get over 300fps on 0.20bb. This is the limit for CQB indoor.. It is also limited to semi only when playing indoor or closer then 5 meter. So it would be perfect for this.

 

But I do have my TW5 (ptw mp5) for backup if it would stop working..

 

It is almost like a pistol.. You don`t really trust your GBB to work 110% do you?.. It would maybe have leaked a mag that was in your pistol, and when you reached down and shoot, it would just do a small pop and you have to change to another mag.. maybe the o-ring was a bit dry or you dropped it one time in the dirt and it was ruined.

 

Only problem with the WA M4 is that the price is scaled up with the scale of the GBB.. At first I would be lucky if I would buy 6 spare mags since they cost an arm and a leg.

Edited July 26, 2008 by IBICO

[kimkafwan]

I'm only a lurker but is it new? stock parts?

 

http://www.wa-gunnet.co.jp/gallery/m4acc.html

[GBB Nut]

UPDATE! The good news is that the buffer tube is removeable and the real buffer will work with the WA M4! The bad news is that it is a real pain in the to get it off. So, not impossible, just frustrating. Be careful because there is a real chance of breaking the plastic lower. And without a metal receiver to replace it you'll just have a very expensive paperweight.

 

Think that's bad? It only gets better from here....

 

 

 

The second issue that I encountered was that the real buffer tube I installed is about 1" longer than the stock WA buffer tube. Using the stock WA buffer spring + the real buffer (sans weights) will cause the WA M4 to lock to the rear. This is because the WA bolt carrier is designed differently to accomodate the plastic loading nozzle in lieu of a bolt. That slight difference causes the bolt carrier to get caught up on the hammer. Needless to say, this is a HUGE problem. Now some of you might be thinking about using the real buffer spring and you'll come to find out that it is actually shorter than stock WA spring. Obviously installing this part would only serve to complicate matters further. So keep the stock WA buffer spring and just install a spacer to make up for the difference in length between the two buffer tubes. I've been running this setup for 1000 rounds and counting and it works well.

 

PROS

- We can use more real parts!

- We get to install real stocks!

- There is a very audible "sproing" when you fire the WA M4 which is similar to the real rifle.

- The recoil, while slightly slower, is now more of a back-and-forward rocking motion. Again, very similar to the real deal.

 

CONS

- Noticeable decrease in the cyclic rate (this can also be a pro since you may gain some accuracy in follow up shots)

- Not the simplest mod. There is the possibility of inflicting irrepairable damage to the plastic lower on your WA M4.

[TooTall]

Sweet! What was your method of getting the buffer tube off?

[junior]

I think this may have been mentioned before. How thick of a spacer did you need, and what did you use?

Edited July 26, 2008 by junior

[chillindrdude]

i love my WA CQBR!

 

Edited July 26, 2008 by chillindrdude

[Inq Eisenhorn]

Yeah, nice Torch, but what about the rest of the rifle

[Nitemare1]

 

While I agree that the WA M4 looks the business and is just about as close as you can get in airsoft to a real M4. I object to being charged the equivalent of a TM GBB for one magazine!

 

I've been not paying real attention to the details until I found a link to Wolf.. £90 each!!

 

Is there some new technology in these mags or is it just a complete urine extraction?

[poison123]

While I agree that the WA M4 looks the business and is just about as close as you can get in airsoft to a real M4. I object to being charged the equivalent of a TM GBB for one magazine!

 

I've been not paying real attention to the details until I found a link to Wolf.. £90 each!!

 

Is there some new technology in these mags or is it just a complete urine extraction?

 

 

 

Well as I understand it they sell for in the $70's in Japan. Its the jack@ss HK guys who are marking them up to insane prices.

[TheAverageAsian]

There's a market for them, and people are half-grudgingly willing to pay. Additional shipping and the notion of the middle man, add on to the cost.

 

TAA

[GBB Nut]

Well I'm not sure you guys will want to install a real buffer tube since some company (G&P, Inokatsu, etc...) is bound to release an aftermarket metal receiver sooner or later. Manufacturers ---> sooner, please! But since you asked, I'll tell you how I did it.

 

DISCLAIMER - This is NOT a set of instructions nor is this a tutorial of any kind. This is simply a description of the process that I went through to remove the buffer tube from my WA M4. DO NOT PERFORM THIS MODIFICATION. Especially if you have no experience working on a real AR-15 type rifle. I will not be held responsible if someone goes and butchers their WA M4.

 

Well I was bored one day and being the hapless tinkerer that I am I figured I'd try to install a real buffer tube on my WA M4. I knew it could be done since some of the guys on this thread had mentioned that they had already performed this mod. Now I didn't have much information other than that but I thought I'd take a shot at it anyway. Why not, right?

 

So after spending several minutes looking over the exposed threads on the inside of the lower I could tell that someone had glued the buffer tube in place. In order for me to remove the stock part I knew had to loosen up the glue - with heat. My regular methods were not an option this time because of WA's plastic receiver and the limited amount of work space around these parts. So no heat gun, torch or lighter this time. Instead I went with a soldering iron with a long tip. This would give me the amount of control I needed to direct heat to precise areas on the buffer tube and, hopefully, not damage the receiver in the process.

 

The whole process was extremely slow and tedious. I had to keep moving the soldering iron to avoid heating up the plastic too much. I used the longer tip to reach inside the buffer tube to heat it from the inside. Moving it around to heat everything up as evenly as possible. I also heated up the outside of the buffer tube by using the receiver end plate (aka "G&P stock ring") as a sort of insulator as I slowly ran soldering iron around the base of the buffer tube. Naturally I had to unscrew the castle nut (aka "G&P pipe ring") to get the soldering iron as close as possible to the glued area. After about 30 minutes of continuously moving the soldering iron from spot to spot, carefully avoiding contact with any plastic parts, I was able to loosen up the glue enough. After that it was fairly smooth sailing.

 

Now that I had the buffer tube installed I definitely had to use the real buffer. So I just swapped it for the plastic one and tried it out. First try, FAIL. Removed the real buffer, punched out the roll pin, removed the lead weights inside, reassembled and reinstalled - bang, bang, bang, click! WTF?! The bolt locked to the rear but the bolt catch wasn't holding it back. After a few minutes of comparing parts and manually cycling the action I found out that the bolt carrier was catching on the hammer. Uh oh, huge problem...

 

Thankfully it wasn't as bad as it seemed. A quick comparison of the original buffer tube and the new tube revealed a size difference of about 1". GAH! Are you kidding me? What was I going to do now? Hastily looking over my work area I spotted my solution: a plastic AEG cylinder head. It was about the same diameter as the buffer spring and a perfect fit inside the buffer tube. A few wacks with the trusty dremel and... Voila! Instant 1" spacer. I just tossed it in before reinstalling the stock WA buffer spring and my new "lighter weight" buffer. A quick functions check (a very important step before actually test firing) showed that everything seemed to be working as planned. Insert mag, test fire on both semi and full auto confirmed I was back in business.

 

After performing this modifcation, my WA M4 was now rocking back and forth slightly with every shot. This was a much nicer feeling than the short, snappy recoil action it had before. As an added bonus, I was now hearing a very audible *sproing* sound every time I fired. I did noticed a slight decrease in the cyclic rate but that wasn't a big deal. Especially considering the trade-off. Real buffer, real buffer tube, real receiver end plate, much nicer recoil. Besides, in a few days I'll have my Prometheus 6.03mm inner barrel, machined to fit the WA M4 profile. That should make me feel a whole lot better.