Hk VS Colt

[0nslaught]

Cool video my friend showed me

 

 

i love how for the 416 he wears goggles, but for the M4 he wears a huge face mask

[Punkypink]

Well they obviously knew the colt would blow up and the 416 was obviously designed so that this problem is solved. But thats how it is with any design isn't it? It gets better as people redesign it more. For a good example, look at the Lamborghini Murcielago... to the LP640... to the Reventon.

[amateurstuntman]

Love the dance re-mix of the Das Boot theme...

[Nitemare1]

It's the same with any manufacturer who compares thier product with the competition isn't it?

 

They focus on the features of thier product that outperform the competition and gloss over those parts that don't

 

[Weirdguy]

It's worth mentioning that this was a specific model of the 416 that was made to pass this test. It has draining holes drilled in specific places that they knew would need to be drained. All new 416's are supposed to be getting this feature though.

 

FN SCAR is the only other weapon that passed the test.

[Fin]

FN SCAR is the only other weapon that passed the test.

 

Then the XM8 would come along and dominate the results....again

 

Shall i play the part of teh US funder?

 

"BuT It aM bESt GuUuN! MaS sHaRez iN CoLT aM pRooF!!!11111"

 

 

 

Watching M4s fail is my favorite hobby

[Sale]

Another biased test. It's glaringly obvious that he kept the barrel of the M4 pointing upwards and fired in much less than the specified 2 seconds to make sure it wouldn't pass the A-test. That said, the M4 could have blown up anyways, but now they just managed to make the test look biased, even though the 416 would have won even in a fair comparison.

 

The HK416 definitely is more reliable than the M4A1, so in that sense it's a better weapon for sure. I don't think anyone on this planet denies that because it's a fact. I know I'd much rather have a HK416 if it was my life on the line. However, the amount of improvements it offers (while still not fixing the main problem: 5.56 from a short barrel), is not worth the cost of replacing each and every weapon on the field with a new one. The reliability problems of the M4 are greatly magnified in these tests, and the actual difference in field use is much smaller with proper maintenance.

 

Colt offered to make a piston-driven version of the M16/M4 weapons family three decades ago, but the armed forces refused to buy it. So don't blame Colt for making something they are asked to produce. It's like barking at Propper for the failure they call ACU: It's not the manufacturer's decision what the military wants to buy. If Colt refused to manufacture any more weapons with a gas tube, then the contracts would be given to other factories.

 

I liked the U96 track better. I think I still have the cassette somewhere.

 

-Sale

[Spedz]

[expvideo]

An AKM will catch on fire before it fails to fire, and it will do it covered in mud, soaked in water, frozen, dirty, sandy, whatever. It's the ultimate weapon design, but we're too proud to replicate it, and we have to stick to trying to make the american gun better. And after 61 years, the M4 is finally almost as reliable as the AK47 was in it's first released design.

[DarkLite]

It's the same with any manufacturer who compares thier product with the competition isn't it?

 

They focus on the features of thier product that outperform the competition and gloss over those parts that don't

 

Please, do tell: Which features of the HK416 do not outperform the standard M4?

[amateurstuntman]

When you sell a lot of colts, the share dividends pay a lot of money into the bank accounts of all the defense procurement suits.

 

HK416 does not have this feature.

 

 

[Nitemare1]

Please, do tell: Which features of the HK416 do not outperform the standard M4?

 

I'm sure they all do..

 

My point is that any demo video like that one is bound to be as fixed as that appears

[Sale]

The lightweight moving parts of an AR-15 provides reduced recoil compared to a piston-driven design. But it only matters in high end competition rifles... And at carbine length an AR-15 will actually "calm down" when converted to use a gas piston, because the direct gas system was only originally designed for a 20" barrel.

 

Even a pimped AKM doesn't offer the accuracy and recoil handling of a more modern weapon, such as the SCAR or HK416. Sure it's "good enough" for conscripts, but assault rifle development certainly didn't stop 50 years ago.

 

-Sale

[expvideo]

Even a pimped AKM doesn't offer the accuracy and recoil handling of a more modern weapon, such as the SCAR or HK416. Sure it's "good enough" for conscripts, but assault rifle development certainly didn't stop 50 years ago.

 

-Sale

Handling has nothing to do with reliability. Reliability and durability wise, nothing has surpassed the AK in 61 years. Besides, recoil and accuracy were fixed in the 5.45 and 5.56 models.

[DarkLite]

When you sell a lot of colts, the share dividends pay a lot of money into the bank accounts of all the defense procurement suits.

 

HK416 does not have this feature.

 

 

Fair enough.

[birchm]

When you sell a lot of colts, the share dividends pay a lot of money into the bank accounts of all the defense procurement suits.

 

HK416 does not have this feature.

 

Colt's Manufacturing Company is a private company, therefore there are no publicly traded shares, and no dividends to be payed out.

[expvideo]

Colt's Manufacturing Company is a private company, therefore there are no publicly traded shares, and no dividends to be payed out.

...publicly.

 

Consider the arguement here. Colt makes a mediocre product that should by any other means not be on the modern military market, but they manage to stay in business. They have had several much better rifles compete with them, lost every time, but still they always win the rifle contract. They sold the military what is arguably the least reliable assault rifle in all of history, and the military continues to buy them decades later. You honestly don't think that Colt dollars have funded many a penthouse suite and hooker? Somebody has to be getting some pretty good tail and a large "pension" to still be buying their products.

[Fin]

I have no doubt colt is pulling strings somewhere along the lines, the excuses for ditching the XM8 were so bad you could cry. And if the US is serious (as in actually will) about adopting a new rifle wouldn't it make sense to build up from a new caliber all together? The 5.56 has had complaints since it was first fielded...

 

Just in case anybody forgot, my favorite numbers from September/November

[PlasticMag]

Fin, please knock off the XM8 talk. It's annoying at best. It's a dead horse, stop beating it like an angry 14 year old with his first porno mag.

[Fin]

Fin, please knock off the XM8 talk. It's annoying at best. It's a dead horse, stop beating it like an angry 14 year old with his first porno mag.

 

BUT, its a dead horse that currently out preforms everyone else

[birchm]

I have no doubt colt is pulling strings somewhere along the lines, the excuses for ditching the XM8 were so bad you could cry. And if the US is serious (as in actually will) about adopting a new rifle wouldn't it make sense to build up from a new caliber all together? The 5.56 has had complaints since it was first fielded...

 

Just in case anybody forgot, my favorite numbers from September/November

 

Weren't those results called into question because an earlier test using the same conditions and lubrication resulted in the m4 jamming only 307 times? Bit of a discrepancy and all that.

[expvideo]

BUT, its a dead horse that currently out preforms everyone else

...everything?

 

How about a gun that doesn't have to be cleaned and can survive anything you can throw at it. It wil shoot the crappiest cheap ammo, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn9WcjsSr_I

 

[spartan490]

Seriously expvideo, the US will NEVER adopt an AK varient. EVER. So stop bringing it up. Same goes for the XM8.

[Sale]

Handling has nothing to do with reliability. Reliability and durability wise, nothing has surpassed the AK in 61 years.

I know, but professional soldiers want other features from their weapons, not just durability and reliability. Those are very high on the list, but when a durable and reliable weapon is able to provide better accuracy and handling, choosing that is a no-brainer.

 

An AK is not the invulnerable magic machine you make it sound like. I've seen them break and jam before, so it's not an impossible scenario. I'd like to see an AK pitched against a HK416 in a life-cycle test to see which one would need parts replaced first. I'd bet a lunch that the AK would require maintenance sooner.

 

Besides, recoil and accuracy were fixed in the 5.45 and 5.56 models.

If you call an AK in any caliber accurate, I would highly doubt whether you're being objective in your statement. And they still have worse recoil handling than say, a G36.

 

The problems with the M4A1 are related to the design, not the quality of work by Colt. It would have the exact same problem if the same weapon was manufactured by FN (who do make M16s), HK, SAKO or any other factory. The problem is the weapon the military wants to buy, not what Colt decides to do. Colt offered to make a piston-driven model a long time ago, but it was rejected by the military.

 

-Sale

[Fuser]

BUT, its a dead horse that currently out preforms everyone else

But it has no railz for me to mount my lazerz.

 

Yeah, like birchm said, that one test had quite a few discrepancies about it, so no one should be going around waving the data from ONE TEST like it was the be all end all of gun performance tests. It does not prove in any way that the XM8 was the best of all the rifles tested.