Lithium-Polymer (LiPo) Battery Primer

[infected]

Right... my batteries are on the way. LiPo heaven is nearly upon me. A question for anyone that may be in the know:

 

I have a Pro Peak Sigma charger. I understand you can get the EQ 5 or EQ 6 balancer, and that the 6 interfaces with the charger. I'm unsure of how they both work. Do they work independantly of the charger as well as whilst under charge? Is it worth me splashing the £25-30 on one of these balancers, or can someone recomend a cheaper alternative that's been proven?

 

On a side note, i'm working my way closer to ordering a couple of mosfets from you, infected...

 

Check with the people you're ordering your charger from as to the use and operation of it. The way I see it, if they can't help you with that (or are unwilling to), they aren't a quality retailer. Check with r/c guys too... they for the most part know their stuff.

 

I'm ready to sell you those mosfets any time .

[infected]

A word on the Elite 2200mah 7.4v 30C Lipos. I don't know they they have the punch the numbers say they do.

 

They are supposed to be 30C continuous. That means 66A continuous. That also means 488.4 watts continuous power.

 

An Intellect 9.6v 1600mah NiMH battery pack is about 11C continuous. That means 17.6A and 168.96 watts. Here's the deal though. I tried both out in an AEG that shoots 400 fps very consistently. The Lipoly churned out 18.8rps, whereas the 9.6v managed 20.8rps!

 

What's up with that? The math shows that the Intellect should have performed at a lower level than the 7.4v lipoly. Any ideas? Think it's the lipoly?

 

[Fly'n Brian]

I just picked up one of those Elite 7.4v's to try out.

 

I'll pass it out to a team-mate of mine to try in his Scar to test, since I'm still waiting on parts before I get my Scar tuned up. He has been running a 7.4v 2100 mah 15c pack and I'll see how it compares to that.

[REVOA4]

A word on the Elite 2200mah 7.4v 30C Lipos. I don't know they they have the punch the numbers say they do.

 

They are supposed to be 30C continuous. That means 66A continuous. That also means 488.4 watts continuous power.

 

An Intellect 9.6v 1600mah NiMH battery pack is about 11C continuous. That means 17.6A and 168.96 watts. Here's the deal though. I tried both out in an AEG that shoots 400 fps very consistently. The Lipoly churned out 18.8rps, whereas the 9.6v managed 20.8rps!

 

What's up with that? The math shows that the Intellect should have performed at a lower level than the 7.4v lipoly. Any ideas? Think it's the lipoly?

 

Oh man thats a real bummer, hopefully Elite didn't mislabel these or maybe a bad batch??? I know Firefox has reports out there of doubling the MAH ratings of what the battery actually is.

 

I was really eying those Elite Lipo's but maybe I'll hold off, thanks for the heads up and hopefully you can get that sorted out.

[infected]

Honestly, I don't know that the battery is a bust for the money though. Think about it. As cheap as this lipo is, it's the only way to pack in more power than 8.4v nimh in the Dboys SCAR stock. It does manage to pull off almost 19 rounds per second with a g&p m120 motor in there (shooting 397 fps).

[REVOA4]

Yeah I hear you. Its probably a solid battery but with that 50C burst discharge rating I was expecting it to blow the 9.6v mini out of the water when comparing ROF. Maybe my expectations were to high.

[infected]

Yeah I hear you. Its probably a solid battery but with that 50C burst discharge rating I was expecting it to blow the 9.6v mini out of the water when comparing ROF. Maybe my expectations were to high.

 

I should compare the trigger response as that's where the 50C discharge would come into play.

[sc0rp10n]

I wanted to stop in and THANK all of the resident veterans of this thread. I have studied your thoughts and experiences over the past two months with great success. I purchased my first LiPo pack and charger a week ago and the projected results are, for lack of a better term, terrifying.

 

I had previously been using a 12v 4500mah 35amp NiMH to power my 400fps gearbox. I was only acheiving 27-28 rds/sec and that is acceptable, but certainly not the best. I'm currently awaiting one of the yet to be on the market ELITE 11.1v 3500mah 30C/50C burst. I was projected to acheieve 35 rds/sec with this battery on my current setup. I'm excited to pick this battery pack as it is the perfect size to fit inside a hollow magazine shell on the side of my stock in a pouch. I really like that look of a "mag ready".

 

It seems most of you are looking to hide a very low powered Lipo in your stock tubes, or in the front grips of your ARs so I doubt you'll need a review on my setup. But if anyone out there is looking for experiences with pushing 400fps gearboxes to their limits, just send me a PM and I'll do my best to help out. Happy modding to all of you, and maybe I'll get to meet some of you on the field one day

[Vercingetorix]

I wanted to stop in and THANK all of the resident veterans of this thread. I have studied your thoughts and experiences over the past two months with great success. I purchased my first LiPo pack and charger a week ago and the projected results are, for lack of a better term, terrifying.

 

I had previously been using a 12v 4500mah 35amp NiMH to power my 400fps gearbox. I was only acheiving 27-28 rds/sec and that is acceptable, but certainly not the best. I'm currently awaiting one of the yet to be on the market ELITE 11.1v 3500mah 30C/50C burst. I was projected to acheieve 35 rds/sec with this battery on my current setup. I'm excited to pick this battery pack as it is the perfect size to fit inside a hollow magazine shell on the side of my stock in a pouch. I really like that look of a "mag ready".

 

It seems most of you are looking to hide a very low powered Lipo in your stock tubes, or in the front grips of your ARs so I doubt you'll need a review on my setup. But if anyone out there is looking for experiences with pushing 400fps gearboxes to their limits, just send me a PM and I'll do my best to help out. Happy modding to all of you, and maybe I'll get to meet some of you on the field one day

 

 

That battery won't fit a hollow mag shell.... I have the 3300, and unless they made it quite a bit thinner, it won't work... I had to dremel half the mag of to fit the lipo in, then I encased it in bublewrap and tapped the whole thing to the mag shell, making it look like this tan freak of nature..... I wish I had waited... The new elite bats are sure to solve some earlier problems......

 

You sure your gonna get that much of a gain btw? That sounds a tad bit inflated when you go from an elite(good quality) 4500mah high dischage nimh 12vto an 11.1v 3500mah lipo with about the same or little higher discharge, that just doesn't sound right.....

[Vercingetorix]

grrr double post

[sc0rp10n]

The 12v 4500 is a 35amp discharge NiMH, and the Lipo is going to supply 99-105amp continuous with bursts of 174-180amp. Therefore I will never be starving the motor as I am now. With the NiMH my ROF drops significantly after only a couple hundred cycles(shots). And as I mentioned, those numbers were only projected to me. I have yet to even receive the pack in the mail! But when I do, I'll be sure to post up the ACTUAL results.

 

As for the battery, I failed to mention the modifications that Vercingetorix has. the Dimensions of the pack I am choosing is 135mmx44mmx21mm. That means I can remove the inside panel of the magazine shell and then lay the Lipo flat against it. Thus when you look at the stock it will look like a magazine only with no gaps, wires, or spaces exposed. Thanks for pointing that out Vercingetorix!

[Vercingetorix]

Ah... I see. Where are you buying said battery from? I have had some bad problems with my Elite lipo, hopefully the new run is better, actually I think the problems were the mosfet's motor heat protection, its an old AWS one back about 6 months before they had their fancy PCB fets and website, I talked to lighthazard and he thinks its kicking in to early..... time for a new FET Either way, my ROF goes down in sustained fire (like 3+ seconds), and rapid fire semi can quickly make the gun unresponsive.... As in not a typical lockup that switching to FA and firing a burst will clear, the gun just doesn't work.. Of course the motor(magnum) is extremely hot at this point, but it should still be able to go won, which leads me to think its either the battery or the FET... Also, how are you projected to gain that much?! I Don't have a measuring tool, but in my setup I was getting about 24ish RPS with an Elite 9.6v 1500mah battery(small I know), when I switch to the lipo I probably gained maybe 5 rps, but that declines as the cycles go on, to the point where after say 1k bbs have gone through you maybe loose 1/2 a bb per second/cycle per second..... You saying a 7ish rps gain, and that seems a bit much for me.... Never seen any wonder part that could pull something that monumental off before, but if its true, that is pretty damn cool!

[Badly Browned]

Hi guys,

 

So I got a newb question, I have been considering taking the next step. Looking at RClipos.com it says that I should "Request PQ / HP, AL or TP taps during checkout." However, I really have no clues which ones I need. I guess since I want to get the Hyperion Charger/Balancer that I need the HP / PQ Tap?

 

If it helps, I am looking to buy a Hyperion HP-EOS0403i Charger / Balancer, Elite EL2S-2200 Li-Poly Battery, and a Lipo Sack.

 

Sorry if this has been answered already, I admittedly did not look through the entire thread yet.

[sc0rp10n]

First off this is a huge thread and there are tons of information bits throughout, you really do need to read the entire thing. Go get a cup of coffee/tea/mug of beer and read it fully.

 

As for your question, Taps are relative to the charger you are purchasing/using. I chose to purchase the ELITE Bi5 charger which requires align taps. So I had to request AL taps on the ELITE Lipo I purchased. It's simple really, the tap on the Lipo has to match the balancer/charger you are using.

[infected]

if you email them, Pat will reply usually within an hour or so.

[Mikeiw]

I can't remember the thread I saw it in, but on the recommendation of a nother member on here, I went looking for a small lipo pack that would fit in my Type 89 and AK-S, which both run stick batteries - as yet not catered for my any decent lipos.

 

I found a Flightpower EvoLite V2 Bladeupgrade pack, which is 23 x 11.7 x 93mm, and has 800mah in 2 cells. Power output is a healthy 20C with 30C burst, but it comes as standard with a horrible little red connector, the name of which escapes me. It didn't take me long to switch that over for a mini-Tamiya (reason for which will become clear later), and I charged it up.

 

Out of the pack the cells were showing 3.7v and 3.8v on my little tester, but after balanced charging were showing 4.2v each. It's a drop fit into the AK, and you just position the battery in the rear of the compartment, behind the fake bolt handle/ejector cover (it's a Cyma AK, with a horrible plastic body). ROF is nice, and better than the sluggish action with a 1,400mah 8.4v NimH. There's an M120 spring in there, but that's getting downgraded to an M110 shortly, as it's a bit warm for most British sites. Doubtless that'll see an increase in ROF too.

 

The Type 89 needed a little lip removing from the top of the outer barrel cover, and is a tight fit, but does work. If I'd switched to Deans however, it would have been difficult to find room for the bulky connector - unless I have a rethink & maybe take a Dremel to some more of the inside. It now remains to be seen if I'll get more shots from it with the lipo than a stick battery. If it's a positive experience, a couple more will be on my want list

 

My only concern is the spindly wire that comes attached to the battery. After the fire test (couple of hundred rounds), the cables were distinctly warm. I'm not familar with the innards of a lipo, so don't know if I could replace them with some more substantial ones?

[PlasticMag]

I'm trying out one of the new KA LiPos (11.1v, 1300mAh, 12C continuous) in my AKSU since I'm not looking for a major RoF increase, just a longer-lasting stick battery with a bit more 'oomph.' I borrowed a friend's 1600mAh and the AKSU purred (for lack of a better word). That said, I had a couple of questions (and I don't think I saw the answers while reading through the thread):

 

-The balancer is in-line with the charger. I connect the balancer to the charger and the battery to the balancer. I've got a TLP charger, can I hook the balancer up to that and go from there or should I stick to the KA-supplied charger (which is apparently decent)

 

-What the heck is the difference between LiIon and LiPoly batteries? Is there one, in airsoft? I.E. could I buy a FireFox LiIon and use it with the KA LiPoly setup I just bought? If not, why and what should I use?

 

[LordElpus]

I'm trying out one of the new KA LiPos (11.1v, 1300mAh, 12C continuous) in my AKSU since I'm not looking for a major RoF increase, just a longer-lasting stick battery with a bit more 'oomph.' I borrowed a friend's 1600mAh and the AKSU purred (for lack of a better word). That said, I had a couple of questions (and I don't think I saw the answers while reading through the thread):

 

-The balancer is in-line with the charger. I connect the balancer to the charger and the battery to the balancer. I've got a TLP charger, can I hook the balancer up to that and go from there or should I stick to the KA-supplied charger (which is apparently decent)

 

-What the heck is the difference between LiIon and LiPoly batteries? Is there one, in airsoft? I.E. could I buy a FireFox LiIon and use it with the KA LiPoly setup I just bought? If not, why and what should I use?

 

I hope you don't like Full Auto as that pack will only be providing about 15amp continuous. I have a 7.4v 1000mah 25c pack in my G36 and it acts like it has a 8.4v mini battery in it on auto (not that it maters as it's 50c burst giving me great trigger response for semi).

[PlasticMag]

I don't bother with full-auto in anything more than 5rd bursts. That said, the battery held up plenty to full-auto in my setup, in fact I held the trigger down for a good 30seconds (emptied the rest of a hicap) just to give it a whir, with no slowdown at about 1/2 charge.

[LordElpus]

Hmm.. SOCOM Gear's news post.. Scaremongering to sell a typical naff airsoft lipo? The King Arms and Madbull Lipo's are not looking up to much C rating and mAh wise, will SOCOMs?

[infected]

Hmm.. SOCOM Gear's news post.. Scaremongering to sell a typical naff airsoft lipo?

 

I agree. They'd have to send me one to test before I'd consider forking out the money for one.

[Crocodilo]

I wonder what LIPO bettery would fit inside the handguard/RIS of a DBoys Full metal M4 RIS.

Any sugestions?

Thanks in advance

[LordElpus]

the 11.1v nunchuck style fit as the are very thin (stick of chewing gum thin) Duremex and Firefox do them (in the later's case look for the 20C ones rather than the 12C)

[LordElpus]

I agree. They'd have to send me one to test before I'd consider forking out the money for one.

 

SOCOM Lipos are have either 10C or 15C with their max mAh at 1500 on the 11.1v or 1000mAh on the 7.4v 10C. They still haven't released prices but they will probably be too expensive for the performance (bearing in mind i got a two 7.4v 900mah 18C lipos for £12 posted off ebay...). Only saving grace is that the 7.4v is configured as a cylindrical stick pack for AK/MP5k/UMG owners

 

Socom's lipo page: http://socomgear.com/english/index.php?mai...dex&cPath=2

[infected]

SOCOM Lipos are have either 10C or 15C with their max mAh at 1500 on the 11.1v or 1000mAh on the 7.4v 10C. They still haven't released prices but they will probably be too expensive for the performance (bearing in mind i got a two 7.4v 900mah 18C lipos for £12 posted off ebay...). Only saving grace is that the 7.4v is configured as a cylindrical stick pack for AK/MP5k/UMG owners

 

Socom's lipo page: http://socomgear.com/english/index.php?mai...dex&cPath=2

 

My understanding (and others) is that you can't form a lipo into a cylinder. You can make li-ion into a cylinder, but not lipoly. So is it just a pair of lipoly wafers with a cylindrical tube around it, or is it really a li-ion battery (which would be nothing new).