AGM Gas-Blowback M4

[3vi1-D4n]

This is even funnier than the WE vs WA debates At least the WE is internally different from the WAs.

 

I am not going to get into that. What I AM going to say is that this is the best news for a while. I may be now able to have a few of these guns as loaners to friends. There is now the option of 30 round a magazine, full metal construction and field strippability. with a good degree of detail for good first impressions for people into airsoft

[snorkelman]

Let's all get this straight everyone. You are buying a cheapy gbb rifle. NOT a Western Arms at a discounted price.

 

lets get this straight we already know that and we dont give a flying monkeys *fruitcage*

[michaelmike]

This is even funnier than the WE vs WA debates At least the WE is internally different from the WAs.

 

I am not going to get into that. What I AM going to say is that this is the best news for a while. I may be now able to have a few of these guns as loaners to friends. - I very much agree to that,no matter how the initial quality of the AGM GBB turns, it's still a good news for the consumers,more choices. Now, is there a generous soul out there willing to do a post-game, post-1000-rounds review?

[renegadecow]

Thats a tall order considering the extra mags aren't out yet.

[shinhk]

lets get this straight we already know that and we dont give a flying monkeys *fruitcage*

You don't give care about quality?

[MDK_Marshal]

Now, is there a generous soul out there willing to do a post-game, post-1000-rounds review?

 

Exactly what I plan to do, if I can.

 

I'm currently pressed for time at the moment (exam season ), so i may take a while, but I'll at the very least put a few rounds through it and do an initial review of the thing. If I get to a game before someone else posts a game-review, I'll post how it fared.

 

Also, to the people saying they'd rather have a WA, and would never touch this because it smells funny: bully for you. You have disposable income, and good on you for that. Other people, however, myself included, have to make do on a shoestring budget and weigh airsoft against things such as eating. as the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers, and I can afford to make one major airsoft purchase a year; that's this, for me.

 

If I wanted a WA I'd end up waiting at least five years for one.

 

We know you look down upon "inferior" things from upon your ivory towers, and all you're doing is being condescending rich pricks, from where I'm sitting. So knock it off or contribute meaningfully.

[3vi1-D4n]

ShinHK: Its not that we don't care about quality. Its because we have so low expectations on this product cos of its cheap price, that if it actually performs well then we are automatically grateful.

 

Its simple. For example, many of the ACM guns have less issues than the more expensive guns, shoot straighter more durable. Less money is spent, less effort required to tune it up, and in the end the overall cost to get it performing is MUCH LESS than on an expensive rifle. Hence I am grateful.

 

On a more expensive model, you expect it to perform out of the box, but it doesn't and most expensive models have specialised parts so tuning is more difficult, plus then you just end up with an expensive wallhanger.

 

The short question is: Is it cost effective? Even with custom steel spare parts, accuracy barrels and steel bolt catch the AGM will still cheaper than a WE.

 

So no ShinHK, we don't care if its a WA or not. Its cheap, and if it doesn't work, no loss. Its cheap and it work, then BONUS!

[frogfish]

That's the point it dosen't matter if it has great quality, if it shoots that's all the better, I just want it as a toy, not even a skirmish weapon.

[shinhk]

I'm all for cheap stuff. But what concerns me is when people say they're going to buy this or bought this with the intention of building it up with aftermarket WA parts. I'm trying to change the perception that AGM is a WA. Yes buy it because it's a more affordable gas blow back rifle. However we should really avoid saying that the AGM is a WA so parts will fit until it is proven so. People have tried to make that point before where certain g&p parts won't work properly with WA, and prime parts won't work with g&p and inokatsu parts won't work with prime and so on and so on. This thread is about an AGM gas blowback release. It is a cheap way to get a gas blow back rifle and since I know everyone wants one props to AGM for using cheap materials to make it full metal AND affordable for those who aren't financially fortunate.

 

And if you think i'm a "rich *beep*" then so be it. I've spent hundreds of dollars testing parts, trying to figure out what works best on the WA M4 so that others who have the WA M4 may know before spending the money whether it's worth it or not. I like to believe that I've helped others who bought the WA or WOC designs. Don't believe me? Look on gasguns.info and read for yourself. I guarantee if you have problems with this AGM and it is INDEED a WA clone down to all specs, you'll be looking at fixes or solutions that current WA owners have figured out and done already. All you have to do is read and follow. So in a way...us who sacrificed our "disposable income" who are "looking down from our ivory towers" will be your saviors when you have problems. Not all people who can afford stuff are pricks.

[tinydata]

hell, for the price, I'd get one for plinking

 

if it is skirmishable, woo-hoo!

 

Hell, it can't be less reliable than a real M4 can it? (shudders and thinks about jams, double feeds, and misfires...) lol

[3vi1-D4n]

ShinHK: I certainly did not imply or accuse you of being a rich ** Please no need to get defensive over an issue that doesn't exist. I know you have already explained your view on this with the WA vs WE discussion already.

 

I was merely showing the thought process of the typical consumer.

 

- Cheap: Doesn't perform, doesn't work = annoyed

- Cheap: Doesn't perform, but works ok OOTB but breaks = satisfied

- Cheap: Performs, works ok OOTB = Happy

 

- Expensive: Doesn't perform, doesn't work = annoyed

- Expensive: Doesn't perform, but works ok OOTB and breaks = annoyed

- Expensive: Performs, works ok OOTB = Happy.

 

So you see with the more expensive the platform is the harder it is to please the consumer, especially to fix an expensive model is more than it would be to fix a cheaper one.

 

Yes it ISN'T a WA. We won't know how similar till we play with it. My main concern is whether the bolt is steel, bolt catch is steel, and the firing pin is steel.

 

And as for using pre-existing knowhow of the WA system derived by WA users such as yourself. Most tinkerers would prefer to figure it out for themselves anyways, the general masses of consumers MAY look at the old knowhow, but half the fun of life is solving your own problems, so no don't assume people will appreciate your opinions.

 

I bought one of the first WEs and came up with a lot of the fixes, and sure as hell don't appreciate majority of the fixes WE owners put forward because I have a better solution most of the time. And I don't demand they appreciate or follow my tips.

 

 

Getting back to the AGM, I will be getting one for testing

[Stealthbomber]

I'm all for cheap stuff. But what concerns me is when people say they're going to buy this or bought this with the intention of building it up with aftermarket WA parts. I'm trying to change the perception that AGM is a WA. Yes buy it because it's a more affordable gas blow back rifle. However we should really avoid saying that the AGM is a WA so parts will fit until it is proven so. People have tried to make that point before where certain g&p parts won't work properly with WA, and prime parts won't work with g&p and inokatsu parts won't work with prime and so on and so on. This thread is about an AGM gas blowback release. It is a cheap way to get a gas blow back rifle and since I know everyone wants one props to AGM for using cheap materials to make it full metal AND affordable for those who aren't financially fortunate.

 

Isn't all this stuff about "prime, inokatsu, G&P blah blah blah..." just a tiny bit redundant?

 

On the information we have it's a copy of the WA M4.

If that's the case then the stuff that fits a WA will fit this. Stuff that won't, erm, won't.

 

Personally, I think some of the stuff you've said is perfectly valid. The chinese wouldn't know good quality metal if they fell over it.

A lot of the time they copy stuff without knowing why they're doing it that way.

As a result they can't understand which tolerences are critical and which ones are no big deal.

On that basis the operation of this gun might be a bit of a lottery.

Even so, the worst-case-scenario is that you end up buying a bunch of new parts for it, in which case you'll end up with something similar to a WA M4 that's been dipped in the G&P catalogue except that it'll have cost you £350 less.

 

 

The other thing I was thinking, and I hate to say this, is that it looks like the WE M4 is going to become a bit of a white elephant.

Sure, it was a brave attempt and you've gotta applaud them for actually having a go and designing something for themselves.

Having said that, with all these clones of the WA gun coming out, I think most WE owners are probably heading down a dead-end street.

Sorry.

 

The Chinese HAVE done this sort of thing before.

One example that springs to mind is with spring sniper rifles.

The first ones they produced were an original design kinda based on an APS2, sort of, but with no major parts compatibility.

They laboured at these things for a year or so then gave up and made a knock-off of the VSR10. The rest is history.

 

Funny when you think about it.

Maybe they were trying to design stuff for themselves at first but, because they've never received any support from the after-market, they figured it would be easier to copy other designs so that customers could buy after-market parts to fit the chinese guns?

[Kalmar]

And if you think i'm a "rich *beep*" then so be it. I've spent hundreds of dollars testing parts, trying to figure out what works best on the WA M4 so that others who have the WA M4 may know before spending the money whether it's worth it or not. I like to believe that I've helped others who bought the WA or WOC designs. Don't believe me? Look on gasguns.info and read for yourself. I guarantee if you have problems with this AGM and it is INDEED a WA clone down to all specs, you'll be looking at fixes or solutions that current WA owners have figured out and done already. All you have to do is read and follow. So in a way...us who sacrificed our "disposable income" who are "looking down from our ivory towers" will be your saviors when you have problems. Not all people who can afford stuff are pricks.

 

That is the truth right there. Shinhk has saved my butt on more than one occasion. Without him or the sacrifices made by many more knowledgeable users on GGI I know others would still be left clueless or out of cash.

[michaelmike]

Well,we won't know the statistic until the reviews starts pouring in but one thing is sure though,which i am grateful about- the forum is ALIVE!! And we haven't even have JG and Dboys/Kalash coming in yet, i feeling like the i day i discovered airsoft all over again. Ya hoo! Thanks guys and AGM!

[snorkelman]

You don't give care about quality?

 

 

Not when it comes to a 125 dollar gun The way you're banging on you'ld think folks were gambling on an unkown quantity for a marginal 10 bucks saving over the orignal, in some forlorn hope its going to be identical.

 

Credit them with some sense. They know its a gamble, they know it might well last an hour before something goes phut, that it might be leaky or not have greatest of range, thats their choice.

 

Personally if I bought the WA I'd end up throwing 90 percent of it away same goes with the WOC, thats my nature. As a result theres no point me paying any sort of premium for stuff thats going to end up in the same bucket.

[michaelmike]

Well,we won't know the statistic until the reviews starts pouring in but one thing is sure though,which i am grateful about- the forum is ALIVE!! And we haven't even have JG and Dboys/Kalash coming in yet, i feeling like the i day i discovered airsoft all over again. Ya hoo! Thanks guys and AGM!

[KWP]

Well,we won't know the statistic until the reviews starts pouring in but one thing is sure though,which i am grateful about- the forum is ALIVE!! And we haven't even have JG and Dboys/Kalash coming in yet, i feeling like the i day i discovered airsoft all over again. Ya hoo! Thanks guys and AGM!

Same here, I think both WA and WE should receive some kind of Airsoft Innovation Award.

 

Edit: Some new details about the AGM:

Dimensions: 850mm/760mm

Weight: 3.5kg

Power: ~M120

Capacity: ~60

The mags are very heavy, apologies if this is just rumours but the mags are said to weigh about 1/3 of the actual gun which would mean about 1kg. I didn't weigh it myself but confirm they are really heavy commpared to the gun, but once inserted into the gun all is well-balanced and not a biggy. But having several kgs of mags on your body is a different matter. Again exact weight is not confirmed. The mags seem to be the weak point of this gun anyway as they have a gas leak problem. Spare AGM mags are nowhere to get at the moment but are said to cost HK$2xx which would be about US$25+.

[RacingManiac]

$123 is not a lot of money, and not nearly enough to expect steel internals or machined parts. If you are buying one of these knowing that to start, and to have expectations set accordingly, go crazy. But realistically to expect these to be cheap and work as well as the OE products, that would be difficult. When you clone AEGs you clone a pretty looking shell and inside is a gearbox that's probably not that dissimilar to what you find in RC cars(which I am sure Chinese's been making for years). Internals of a gas gun actually needs some strength to survive the clinking-clanking of the parts cycling. That quality of the metal probably will matter more. And then as I mentioned about the seal and whatnot, all those are kinda important because a GBB is that finicky...

 

Btw, consider how many pot-metal parts are out there in airsoft in general(and certainly in ACM stuff), no one ever wondered about the lead paint or lead content in our guns....I guess we are not exactly Childrens, people don't care as much.....

[KWP]

{...}

Btw, consider how many pot-metal parts are out there in airsoft in general(and certainly in ACM stuff), no one ever wondered about the lead paint or lead content in our guns....I guess we are not exactly Childrens, people don't care as much.....

And Airsofters usually don't lick their guns ... well I don't...

[Schaap]

RacingManiac, I would say it this way: If there was a way to turn lead into gold, you would make a fortune buying WEs

[RacingManiac]

no no, the return on investment in that case will be way better on ACM products...since WE still costs more...

[aznriptide859]

If I ever accumulate the money I'll get one to let yall know how it is

 

With shipping total comes to $202 ($123 + $79 shipping to Texas), and I should have that amount by next week.

 

EDIT: It's $178 from EBA shipped, but I don't trust them that much...who should I buy from?

[Mahonen]

Ordered mine from gunners.

 

Total 173USD (123 eur) to finland, what a bargain

 

 

"(Order Confirmed and processing)" \o/

 

 

I was planning to have some reinf. parts for this and use GG or propane.

[DarkLite]

If I ever accumulate the money I'll get one to let yall know how it is

 

With shipping total comes to $202 ($123 + $79 shipping to Texas), and I should have that amount by next week.

 

EDIT: It's $178 from EBA shipped, but I don't trust them that much...who should I buy from?

 

I'd not trust EBB with any order that big - they ship by the cheapest method, which often takes a loooooong time. Pay the little bit extra for TNT shipping from Gunner, it'll save you money and time in the long run.

[shinhk]

You know what? I'm going to switch gears on this one. I'll be more open minded about this particular "clone" because no matter what, I have to look at it as a company who did see enough potential in the WA design to copy it. I really do sincerely hope it IS in fact a WA clone down to the pin sizes and stupidly placed o-ring in the hop-up because then maybe I CAN be of some service for troubleshooting it. I still won't buy one though but my reasons for why have changed. I don't see anything good out of debates about price/clone wars. Yes...I paid a lot for mine and I do have enough "disposable income" to take the chance and buy a WA. But I honestly do not look down at people who have no money because I was once in their shoes. If anything I'm more jealous because when I had no job and first started airsoft over 10 years ago, I didn't even HAVE the option of cheap "within my budget" chinese clones to start off with. So I'll say this now... although I'm anti-clone, if IBICO's review on gasguns.info turns out to prove that it's exactly like the WA then I'll try to give whatever advice I can based off of what I know to help fix and troubleshoot problems. Maybe not to get it to the point of skirmishable, but at least functional. Of course if you'd rather work on it yourself and figure things out like how I did then all the more props to you.

 

My original goal for my 2nd build was to get it functional, accurate and skirmishable on green by replacing the LEAST amount of parts on an original WA M4. It was so my neighbor who's still in college with no job could buy one and get it working nicely without spending a lot. My 3rd build was to put everything together from scratch to see If was able to apply what I learned. I really am all about helping people, though I may get defensive when someone talks negative about things without knowing anything.