redline Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Hey everyone, I was hoping you guys could help me with a problem. Everything with my WE M4 has been great except one thing, my shots keep hooking either left or right. other then that the hop-up seems to be working good. Now I am using propane, a 480 fps nozzle, and .25g bbs ( I should get a 300 nozzle soon). Is there any advice you guys could give me to stop the hooking? I have been cleaning my barrel religiously, and I've tried to dry up the wet hop-up by using straight propane with no silicon oil added for a while now. Could the erratic hooking be from such a high FPS and smaller bb weight? Any help would be great. One last thing, what FPS readings have you guys been having with the 300 FPS nozzle using propane and .2 bbs? Thanks With that high of an FPS, I'd try a heavier BB. Minimum .28. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Hey everyone, I was hoping you guys could help me with a problem. Everything with my WE M4 has been great except one thing, my shots keep hooking either left or right. other then that the hop-up seems to be working good. Now I am using propane, a 480 fps nozzle, and .25g bbs ( I should get a 300 nozzle soon). Is there any advice you guys could give me to stop the hooking? I have been cleaning my barrel religiously, and I've tried to dry up the wet hop-up by using straight propane with no silicon oil added for a while now. Could the erratic hooking be from such a high FPS and smaller bb weight? Any help would be great. One last thing, what FPS readings have you guys been having with the 300 FPS nozzle using propane and .2 bbs? Thanks Do you have the gen2 hopup and chrome barrel? All my problems with hooking went away with the new setup. (.28g bb's) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Funny you should mention that. I still have the older steel nozzle (single 0-ring) and I htink the windows were larger than the brass ones too as I was fiddling around with them last nite. Trying to find the right combo of floating valve, threaded rod, custom nylon spacers I'm toggling around with and nozzle tips to get the perfect FPS level for an OP. Lol. Not the funnest thing to do.... redline,.....do the single o-ring steel nozzles have exactly the same size windows as the 2-oring nozzles? I only have 2 o-ring nozzles here. My buddies new gun came with that. The windows are too large I think. Again >seems< like a good idea, but its creating problems. The floating valve is sometimes shutting too fast becuse of the open area. (no power). Its erratic. His gun is exactly like you dscribed - fps is all over the map - swings as much as 300fps!!!! Switch to brass nozzel, gun fires like a champ. Notice that last week, AB took down ALL nozzles for sale? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eliminator56 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Do you have the gen2 hopup and chrome barrel? All my problems with hooking went away with the new setup. (.28g bb's) I know I do not have a chrome barrel, I have the stock brass barrel. And for the hop up, I have whatever version that comes with the standard V3 from Tactical Horizon. So should I order the chrome barrel with the new hop-up (the green one)? I want to order it from the TS website because of their offer with free international shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKRay Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Notice that last week, AB took down ALL nozzles for sale? I've noticed that too, and I'm trying to get mine down from ~500ish to around 300-350ish, would've been useful to get a low power assembly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I know I do not have a chrome barrel, I have the stock brass barrel. And for the hop up, I have whatever version that comes with the standard V3 from Tactical Horizon. So should I order the chrome barrel with the new hop-up (the green one)? I want to order it from the TS website because of their offer with free international shipping. Don't bother. If you have a V3, then that should technicaly have the new hop-up design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 redline,.....do the single o-ring steel nozzles have exactly the same size windows as the 2-oring nozzles? I only have 2 o-ring nozzles here. My buddies new gun came with that. The windows are too large I think. Again >seems< like a good idea, but its creating problems. The floating valve is sometimes shutting too fast becuse of the open area. (no power). Its erratic. His gun is exactly like you dscribed - fps is all over the map - swings as much as 300fps!!!! Switch to brass nozzel, gun fires like a champ. Notice that last week, AB took down ALL nozzles for sale? Otto, I don't have the 2-oring style. I do have the stock brass nozzle, and the steel version I bought from TS (or was it AB?). I believe its the older type of steel nozzle...I don't have the gun with me, but when playin around last night, I believe the steel version had "squareish windows", whereas the brass one had oblong/oval shaped ones. I think it had wider "legs". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) I know I do not have a chrome barrel, I have the stock brass barrel. And for the hop up, I have whatever version that comes with the standard V3 from Tactical Horizon. So should I order the chrome barrel with the new hop-up (the green one)? I want to order it from the TS website because of their offer with free international shipping. Yes,..and be sure to order a FEW extra green hop sleeves to go with the chrome barrel. You need to sort through a few sleeves to find a good one that fits properly. I hope to have a wiki entry soon covering the new gen2 hopup system and selecting a good sleeve. I dont think that the WE M4 (or any GBB rifle) will have the 'shot to shot' precision of an aeg, but the new hop and barrel brings it close. Quite acceptable. Redline - Thanks for the info. Id like to have a single o-ring steel nozzle to compare. Cant even get one now. Cant even get ANY nozzles right now since AB took them down from sale. As for elimnators problems, he may or may not have the new generation hop. He needs to be sure. And also, a new gen2 hopup with an ill fitting green hop rubber will perform as badly (or worse) than a gen1 hopup. When I examined three green hop rubbers lined up in front of me - and all were different in size and shape - I knew that this was the reason for the wildly different reviews of the new hopup. It all comes down to the green sleeve fitting smoothly and correctly. Edited May 15, 2009 by rottenotto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
somegirls Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) kinda off the tracks, but I was just browsing through AATVs old reviews and found . At first glance it looks familiar. And these things are "pretty" old. Might this be the origin of the WE system? Oh yeah, disclaimer: No, I don't wanna bash WE. No, not an anti WE conspiracy Pure curiousity. @ otto, I will ship the nozzle out on monday! Edited May 15, 2009 by somegirls Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shinhk Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 Actually WE didn't copy AFC's design. Is AFC co-operate with WE to develop this GBB M4. The spare magazine will be half price of WA. Although they never really "copied" anyone's design, they never did their own research and development of the ORIGINAL design without the help of someone else. There were talks of k1custom giving the designs to AFC and AFC was working with WE or whatever. Who knows...and really...who cares. No one else made it easy to get their hands on a gbb rifle with this design. With the vast differences between perfectly working WE M4's and completely useless WE M4's out there, it's almost like buying an SP rifle packaged by WE anyway. Sometimes it works OOTB and sometimes it takes some tweaking to get it running right. But at least now you can own a gas-in-mag GBB system with bolt lock function because it's more easily obtainable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted May 16, 2009 Report Share Posted May 16, 2009 @ otto, I will ship the nozzle out on monday! THANK YOU my friend! Im trying to get his rifle up and running. You saved the day ; ) OTTO PS... Sun Project is a modified escort system also. It does precede the WE M4. It had the external air rig. I had an SP M4 - it is in my 'top 5 biggest airsoft disappointments' after my SHOEI MP44's. lol...what a piece of krap! The Sun Project came with NO hop up. Funny story,....the day I got it, I fired it out the front door and into the neighbors yard. To my shock and horror, the bb's only went 50 feet and arced straight down onto the trunk of my neighbors brand new car. The gun (like the shoeis) needed hundreds and hundreds of dollars to work right - and in the end, you still had a stupid air hose connected to your rifle. If you dont think that is bothersome, try playing even 20 minutes with an airhose. It sucks. You lose all your freedom of movement. There is a company selling GBB rifles that take regular AEG mags - I forget their name. They dont seem to get it. AEG mags? Great! AIRHOSE!? Are you nuts? No thanks. They will be out of business by the end of summer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
accuracy Posted May 16, 2009 Report Share Posted May 16, 2009 There is a company selling GBB rifles that take regular AEG mags - I forget their name. They dont seem to get it. AEG mags? Great! AIRHOSE!? Are you nuts? No thanks. They will be out of business by the end of summer. are you talking about Escort's MP5's? they seemed to be pretty successful Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted May 16, 2009 Report Share Posted May 16, 2009 are you talking about Escort's MP5's? they seemed to be pretty successful except they have the same problems as above, need to about double the price to get something decent external gas guns are great for something huge like a SAW or M60 since you are already bogged down, for a rifle, not so much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 are you talking about Escort's MP5's? they seemed to be pretty successful No, not Escort. Obviously I know Escort since I owned a few SHOEI guns which are escort powered. here it is --- DG - OFFERING THE SAME OLD/SAME OLD- WHOOPEE! Basically another Escort/Sun project gun. They have been advertising in our forums news section quite a bit. What they keep missing is people DONT want hoses attached to their gun. Especially after using a "gas in the mag" gun like the WE or WA. Youd never go back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 ps.... KSC .30g bb's and the new "gen2" hop system DAMN, as good as it gets. I tried other barnds of bb's that hated the new hop system (and the old hopup too). But KSC seems to be the magic surface for the new hopup. Once you get your new hop system installed and dialed in, try KSC .30 bb's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WETTI Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 It's not as bad as it seems Somegirls. I've got Co2 mags for my Hi-Capa and it has the similar screw in system. You can get quite quick at it. It's amazing how fast you can do it under fire! I like the idea of tuning the magazine capacity to suit the output of the capsule. That makes so much sense. WETTI... I assume you're joking, but in case you're not. Sluggish, means slow or laboured. Hey guys.... I was just a light-hearted jab, no pun intended! The Ranger's CO2 guns were just demo-ed at Evike's this afternoon. This may sound a bit corny coming from me, but it was one of the most amazing display of general 'awe-ness' & collective 'you-gotta-be-kidding-me' expressions I've ever seen inside of a store... I will remember forever the smiles that were generated when some of the patrons were offered the chance to try them. My life is just that little bit better after today.... (well... there's another reason as well ) Evike's will have all 3 models of the guns on demo when the Rangers events are completed. Pls contact or visit them if you want to try them out for yourself. I do believe that conversion kits & CO2 mags will be available from them very shortly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 ######, why evike? nobody likes them here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MegaMan3k Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 except they have the same problems as above, need to about double the price to get something decent external gas guns are great for something huge like a SAW or M60 since you are already bogged down, for a rifle, not so much. I wouldn't mind the hose. I hear you can run it along a sling rather effectively. I'd rather have AEG magazine compatibility. Cheap magazines is more important to me than being realistic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 (edited) No, not Escort. Obviously I know Escort since I owned a few SHOEI guns which are escort powered. here it is --- DG - OFFERING THE SAME OLD/SAME OLD- WHOOPEE! Basically another Escort/Sun project gun. They have been advertising in our forums news section quite a bit. What they keep missing is people DONT want hoses attached to their gun. Especially after using a "gas in the mag" gun like the WE or WA. Youd never go back. You bought a stock SP (not going to talk about Shoie, never even shot one), no wonder you were disappointed, they HAVE to be upgraded (all the work is custom done by either Escort or AS4L, DTG might do it now) and tweaked and are quirky as hell even at that, mine was a major disappointment until I tuned it. It was A LOT of work but was very rewarding, had strong recoil once I got a stronger spring, like that of a .222, and range and accuracy was on par with my non H-nubbed AEG, which I no longer own ( a rough average not an exact description I know). DGs guns are not the exact same as Escorts, imagine an Escort system without the flaws of earlier designs, made of quality materials, instead of some of the junk Escort (well not really Escort, but not getting into that) tried to pawn off on us half the time. They also come TUNED out of the box. DTG actually improved many many parts and has made a much better weapon. I'm not going to argue with you about the air rig, to me it's no different than a sling, and most people I know who have borrowed my classics felt the way you did, and changed their opinion quickly, even after running through the mesquite underbrush in central Texas. But TDS has been arguing the counterpoint for quite some time now. Also it sounds like you didn't rig your system with a weaponside QD fitting, which can make a gas rig very unwieldy and impractical. Personally I don't use weapons that use AEG mags, and my mags cost more than most GBB mags, so I don't care how much mags cost, just capacity and gas efficiency. In my experience with using classics side by side with GIM weapons dollar for dollar your getting a better package with external gas Escort systems especially Daytonagun's line. GIMs will get to be the same as AEGs and Escort based systems but they are not there yet. However; R&D like this will lead us all there. I sold my SP as something blowback at that price after upgrades needs to be equivalent to RS in recoil and it needs to shoot better than anything else like it, although it was nice to be able to shoot a highcap or midcap and not worry about cool down or running out of gas, the overall performance was equivalent to that of a well upgraded AEG. The major feature I like about GIM is the fact that most come with a working bolt stop, something *most* SP's don't. Otherwise the effectiveness of the small reservoirs lacks far behind that of the consistency and power external gas delivers, if set up properly. That is something you have to learn where as these newer GIMs seem to be more plug and play. For me the most appealing part overall of GIM is that I want to build a rifle that isn't already made (different RAS and stock than what is available in AEG form), it's cheaper ($200-300) for me to build a WE with all the parts I want and get 4-5 mags than it would be for me to have DTG build me a one-of from the ground up. The only downside is that I might end up spending another $100 in parts and excessive amounts of time getting something that is totally skirmish ready, but that is a a big *IF* I get a lemon. If I spend the money on a DTG weapon it will be ready the minute I load the mags and pop it on my gas rig, and it will most likely out shoot any GIM on the field, but again that comes at a price (that's also excluding purchasing the gas rig if you are new to classics, which is a costly endeavor). Sorry just felt that if you were going to talk trash about DTG, someone needed to chime in with the other side to balance things out. People DO want external rigs, it's just not you two and others like you, and the fact that people do want them can be adequately reflected by the boom in membership on CA.net. To me, finicky poor preforming GIM is the same old same old since the day LA gunshop introduced their M4 line about five or so years ago. However; it seems as though GIM weapons have come down in price (although the mags have not), which reflects a changing tide in the industry. It also seems as though WE is working diligently to fix the issues that appear, which is major progress, for almost ANY airsoft manufacturer. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with Escort based systems but not every weapon is alike, and I and many others like me figured out what our problems were and fixed them, because we understood older Escort weapons were primarily tuner guns, unlike newer DGT weapons (which still require some tuning but no where near as much). I just think downing on a platform for the gas rig is pretty pathetic as essentially it is the same as a single point sling, and can even be made into one. Maybe you should try shooting a DTG weapon, maybe it would change you mind and you'd never go back to GIM. Just have an open mind, you never know how things will go. I am not biased for Escort weapons, personally I will never own a skirmish/main GBB rifle (an SMG maybe mmm MP9) again, they just can't compete with my Asahi BV weapons in terms of performance. But I will own GBB back ups and plinkers, and I think a WE might fit that role perfectly as I don't need to have a second gas rig to loan out, yet I don't have to rely on batteries (don't own any, and don't want to have to buy stuff just for a backup, I'd have to buy mags either way so those don't count). What I really want to know is will those ACM DD rails fit the WE D-ring? If so then I'm sold on a gen 3 for a backyard plinker, as nothing will replace my main skirmish gun, an Asahi Bushmaster, except another Asahi. I just need to find the best place to get a WE (preferably the m16a3), and figure out what parts I should swap out. But I can get all that information in this thread just need to read, and read, and read. Edited May 17, 2009 by frogfish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 SHOEI MP44 Off-topic, but sucks about your bad experience. Mine shoots great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 My life is just that little bit better after today.... (well... there's another reason as well ) Looks like our man got his end away! heheheh..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pollux77 Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 FYI: I just made the semi-only conversion to my fire selector, it works like a charm. But you have to work carefully and file that nub really flat or the gun will continue to shoot full auto... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Midma Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Someone was asking few pages ago: the S.I.R fits perfectly. Midma Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WETTI Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Well... this thread has been WAY too serious.... so to lighten things up a bit... Fresh-off-the-press: WETTI/AFC's CO2 AWSS M16A3 (5th RTB Ranger Edition) @ tonite's Playboy Mansion Party honoring the "Wounded Warrior Project" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 hmmm, body paint! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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