WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

[rvlyssup]

I'm going to be placing an order soon for a coupe of these new design mags. Along with my curiosity, it will be interesting to see how these new mags will hold up. If they do well, all of us WE owners just need to be supplied with OB hop up parts to be golden.

[Reppyboyo]

 

RA-Tech alu nozzle.

Goes from 400 to 460fps.

So a bit useless for most of us.

[rvlyssup]

I'm sure they'll have an NPAS for it Reppy...

[Reppyboyo]

The NPAS is built into it.

[intinerious]

The NPAS is built into it.

 

From what I can tell it seems like they redesigned the whole nozzle system with the Alu nozzle? If they stuck with the original WE design you can always fit a weaker floating valve spring to lower the fps beyond the range the NPAS valve works with the stock valve spring, but I'm not sure what exactly did RATECH do with the new design. They said it's modelled after the WA system, can anyone chime in on how the valve mech should look like? It's not very clear from his ppt.

[rvlyssup]

Duh ...Lol, now I see...couldn't watch the video where I was @ this morning when I posted my response.

[kullwarrior]

From what I can tell it seems like they redesigned the whole nozzle system with the Alu nozzle? If they stuck with the original WE design you can always fit a weaker floating valve spring to lower the fps beyond the range the NPAS valve works with the stock valve spring, but I'm not sure what exactly did RATECH do with the new design. They said it's modelled after the WA system, can anyone chime in on how the valve mech should look like? It's not very clear from his ppt.

I had the WA NPAS before, let me put it this way: ITS A DISASTER

1) Flute valve nub tends to break (the NPAS key is a female end attached to the NPAS as Male end, It gets so twisted typically it breaks

2) The NPAS is adjust by length of the nozzle base (the current WE adjust the flute valve length) the recoil of the gun tends to loosen the base causing it to auto decrease the FPS (without temperature influence) people tends to put loctite or harder spring, which increase the likely hood of causing problem #1

3) There's too many stuff obstructing the nozzle port where gas go in base of nozzle (four prongs) AND the flute valve (three prongs), It self adjust so fps changes dramatically (one shot can be 400s next shot 100s, as shown in video....IT'S NORMAL)

 

One thing I'm surprise is the lowest fps setting. WA NPAS can set the fps to zero (where bb just fall out or incapable of being shot out of the barrel)

 

And guys let me just let you know the cost....

WA NPAS w/ Aluminium nozzle $150USD (I'm not joking)

WA Steel Carrier by RA-Tech is $120USD

Steel Carrier w/ NPAs Aluminium Nozzle is $260USD

 

WE is ~$90USD for the carrier, I suspect it's going to be $100-$150 for the NPAS Nozzle

 

I'm actually quite excited about the product, but if the price is high, I might buy a KWA LM4 see how it performs before continue turning my gun from WE w/ RA-Tech upgrade into RA-Tech w/ WE downgrades.

[intinerious]

I had the WA NPAS before, let me put it this way: ITS A DISASTER

1) Flute valve nub tends to break (the NPAS key is a female end attached to the NPAS as Male end, It gets so twisted typically it breaks

2) The NPAS is adjust by length of the nozzle base (the current WE adjust the flute valve length) the recoil of the gun tends to loosen the base causing it to auto decrease the FPS (without temperature influence) people tends to put loctite or harder spring, which increase the likely hood of causing problem #1

3) There's too many stuff obstructing the nozzle port where gas go in base of nozzle (four prongs) AND the flute valve (three prongs), It self adjust so fps changes dramatically (one shot can be 400s next shot 100s, as shown in video....IT'S NORMAL)

 

One thing I'm surprise is the lowest fps setting. WA NPAS can set the fps to zero (where bb just fall out or incapable of being shot out of the barrel)

 

And guys let me just let you know the cost....

WA NPAS w/ Aluminium nozzle $150USD (I'm not joking)

WA Steel Carrier by RA-Tech is $120USD

Steel Carrier w/ NPAs Aluminium Nozzle is $260USD

 

WE is ~$90USD for the carrier, I suspect it's going to be $100-$150 for the NPAS Nozzle

 

I'm actually quite excited about the product, but if the price is high, I might buy a KWA LM4 see how it performs before continue turning my gun from WE w/ RA-Tech upgrade into RA-Tech w/ WE downgrades.

 

Hmmm so there's a chance they went a step in the wrong direction with this one...

 

You've seen the previous vid right? Does the ppt diagram look anything like the WA NPAS? To me it does but I've never held one before so I wouldn't know ><;

[kullwarrior]

The prototype the had in the 2011 Dec, KSC's NPAS are the exact same as WA. The end of the nozzle is so similiar between those system I'm not sure if they're interchangeable (there isn't any tell tale sign by itself compared to others.

[NonEx]

They responded to the YT video feedback of the FPS being too high, let's see if they release a low powered version as well!

[Basic-Wedge]

I'm surprised by RA-Tech's assertion gas can leak from the connection where the two WE nozzle parts join. The connection on my nozzle seems tight and precise. Does anyone else see that as a source for gas leaking? Would it really matter?

[LordElpus]

or could it be that RA-Tech use a "could happen" scenario to push their upgrade parts?

[kullwarrior]

or could it be that RA-Tech use a "could happen" scenario to push their upgrade parts?

 

I call BS on that, RA-Tech still also a two piece design, the gas goes all the way to the end of the nozzle pushing the bolt carrier. Let me make it simple for you guys to understand what's the biggest difference between stock WE nozzle + NPAS and RA-Tech Nozzle w/ NPAS

 

Stock WE Nozzle:

-$15-25/nozzle+$15/NPAS

-Made of plastic

-NPAS is the flute valve length

-less damaging to the hopup chamber

 

RA-Tech Aluminium nozzle

-Unknown price, but probably significantly more expensive (It's two piece CNC, the frontal end requires quite a bit of CNC programming aka lots of time aka more pricy)

-NPAS is the nozzle base's height

-potentially more damaging to the hop-up chamber

 

 

We'll see how pricy it is, but I really wish that RA-Tech allow the use of WE NPAS (it's a better design than the WA NPAS) IMHO the reason why RA-Tech kept falling back to the WA NPAS is because of patent rights (they have it patented in Japan)

[NonEx]

If you listened to what he had to say about twe two piece design he stated quiet blatantly that even though it might be a source for MINIOR leaks it was inisgnificant. It was just to highlight the differenses between the different nozzles.

[jkpics]

RA-Tech, fixing stuff that ain't broken.

[NonEx]

Well aren't you guys a happy bunch.

 

Yes, let's just hope all third party spare and upgrade parts manufacturers die out and disappear, who needs em anyways!

 

/sarcasm

 

If you don't like it, don't need it or don't want it then don't buy it or bother complaining. Manufacturers don't just produce random *suitcase* nobody wants, they are in it for a profit and make parts that the buyers want and they expect to offload enough to make a profit from the manufacturing process of said part.

[Basic-Wedge]

 

 

I thought I'd show you how my Canadian C7A2 build is coming along... that's my rifle below a teammate's C7A1.

 

My teammate and I each bought a WE closed bolt M16A3. His has, thus far, remained largely unaltered, in the style of a C7A1. My rifle, on the other hand, has evolved more in the direction of the current C7A2 standard, and is now using the open bolt system. I still have some odds and ends to acquire, like an appropriate ambi-fire selector, and maybe a Tri-Ad rail, but it's far enough along to well suit our team's Canadian Army representation. I also hope eventually to get a blank lower receiver, and have it properly laser engraved.

 

Because I'll be playing in Operation East Wind next March, I have to be able to convert my rifle back to A1 standard. Op East Wind is a nine day long, Cold War themed, mil-sim event, with a heavy enphasis on the use of authentic late '80s early 90's equipment. My A2 would stick out like a sore thumb, so I've kept the parts needed to switch back to the more basic platform.

 

Anyway, that's it so far. This rifle has turned out to be a reliable and accurate performer, and is a serious threat on the airsoft battlefield.

[jkpics]

If you don't like it, don't need it or don't want it then don't buy it or bother complaining. Manufacturers don't just produce random *suitcase* nobody wants, they are in it for a profit and make parts that the buyers want and they expect to offload enough to make a profit from the manufacturing process of said part.

 

So the Ra-Tech CB barrels that was just WE barrels with chrome where great, and the way the made part 117 work even worse was by design? some companys are just out to make a quick buck, and when they made total ###### in the past the new stuff gets a big question mark, you have a problem with that?

[NonEx]

And how many products and parts do RA make? And how many of those have been bad ?

 

What brand out there doesn't make a poor product or model ?

 

There are far shittier brands out there. In my experience and opionion RA tech are OK!

[Amadem]

http://en.ratech.com.tw/product/html/rag/rag_we_detail/rag_we_detail_088.php

 

http://en.ratech.com.tw/product/html/rag/rag_we_detail/rag_we_detail_087.php

[Basic-Wedge]

I do like the idea of an aluminum nozzle, but, at four times the cost of a WE replacement nozzle, that's a bit pricey. Also, RA-Tech's nozzle probably shoots too hot for my local games. I hope they come out with a lower velocity version - that, I might buy.

[NonEx]

Update video from RA about the nozzle FPS. I appreciate their efforts but judging from the video the consistency, or lack of, is all over the place

 

Not sure what to make of it.

 

[intinerious]

Hey guys, quick question here for those who's got both the M4 and SCAR.

 

I've got a SCAR myself and played with the idea of getting an M4, but lacking funds at the moment I'll stick with upgrading the SCAR for now. One thing I have an annoyance with is the nozzle on the SCAR doesn't look anything like the bolt on the SCAR, whereas the M4's nozzle does. Does anyone know whether it's possible to use the M4 nozzle in the SCAR? If so, I'd like to get the M4 metal nozzle and run it in my SCAR so that it looks more like a real bolt assembly. I assume that given the 'bolt lugs' on the M4 nozzle I'll have to entertain with the idea of dremeling some material away from the hop up itself to get the nozzle to seal with the bucking but as long as the material removed from the hop up does not decrease it's structural strength I won't mind dremeling the SCAR's hop up to fit an M4 nozzle.

[Reppyboyo]

Consistency seems rubbish on the metal nozzle.

Shame

[rvlyssup]

GG/Propane has never been consistent although I tend to agree that the numbers between for example, 1st or 2nd shot compared the others being way off is a bit of a put off. For consistency, its going to be a different outcome with co2. They may also still be prototyping it and that hopefully, the production version is going to be golden. On the bright side, its nice ot know that GBBR technology is slowly but surely going in the right direction.