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Donut

KJW M4

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Sorry, I should have put them separately, I meant KJW is making the replacement parts, and other manufacturers are making new buckings and barrels.

 

And no worries, I'm just trying to put the facts out. So people who haven't bought a GBB M4 yet has some information before venturing out blindly.

The rest is for people to actually buy them now and see how others react, maybe mine's a lucky fluke, maybe not.

 

One thing I do want to say is, the hopup design is pretty ingenius. The pushing part of the hopup is located in the upper. While the bucking itself just sits in the outer barrel. What does this mean? There is no hopup chamber. The outer barrel acts as the hopup chamber. So no broken hopup chambers and air seal can be more or less guaranteed as long as your AEG outer barrel is to marui spec.

Edited by Donut

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I really dont want to take donuts KJW review any further into off topic, so might be best if this sort of stuff got moved over to the WA v We thread and it got expanded to cover all three?

 

I promise to make this my last big post in it in any case :)

 

cross manufac mag compatibility

 

Market has coped without it in the gas pistols side of things, and manufacs are likely to keep same attiudes as they adopted there (tying buyers in, ego and competing IP rights) so I dont see any prospect of them getting their heads together and agreeing on anything. Gets pretty moot when it comes to guns outside the STANAG ones anyway.

 

Even on the AEG side of things its not as good as it could be - galils that wont accept mags from another manufacs galil (same with FALs) then you have AKs that wibble n wobble with one brand of mag but work fine with another etc

 

Fixing it so all STANAG guns share same mag still leaves the equally thorny issue of cross manufac internal incompatibility and impact of that on buyers choice of subsequent guns.

 

e.g If someones laid out 260 bucks for a shiny RA-T steel bolt carrier on his KJW is he really gonna want to buy a WA M4 as his second gas in mag armalite for a shorty or DMR config, or is he going to buy another KJW where he can share that BCG between them as well as share mags?

 

When it comes to shareable mags between different STANAG guns (not just armalite variants) then the only firm likey to be producing them any time soon is WE - given their system is much more readily/rapidly adaptable to non armalite designs and that neither WA nor KJW are mentioning release of SCARs L85s etc

 

Now when it comes to shareable mags between team mates aye would be helpful for that - assuming folks were willing to lend their delicate gas mags, and other folks were willing to take the responsibility of borrowing them... I suspect in practice a lot of folks would probably pass on the offer rather than risk Sods Law - where the mag is barely in their gun before the seals pop the valve collapses and they need to reach into their pocket to buy their team mate a new one.. :D

 

 

third party support for KJW

If its folks like GHK doing mags, Ra-T doing steel bolt carriers and adjustable output nozzles etc thats a positive development, but all thats going to provide is same high end parts at same sort of high end prices as are being complained about for the WA.

 

RA-T arent suddenly going to sell a steel BCG for the KJW for any sort of price thats appreciably less than they can punt a WA one for, when one requires as much work to make as the other. And even if the KJW gains wider support from Prime 2 Roy and KA etc as well, why would any of them lower the price for an MBK over what they can get making WA ones?

 

to my mind the only gun thats ever going to end up with prospect of a cheap n cheerful steel BCG, or 70 dollar MBKs with trades is going to be the one that chinese parts manufacs are opting to churn out bits for and at moment that looks to be the WA design.

 

Anyway to finish off, while not ideal I dont think the mags issue is neccessarily as much of a problem as it could be (when theres more factors to take into account than is the case with AEGs) so three incompatible platforms isnt really much more of an issue than two.

 

 

I'd say where the KJW has its chance is if it can turn in decent longterm reliability without need to stick RA-T etc parts in or source high priced mags, and for folks either looking to maximise their options by using AEG front ends etc (or who have a bundle of those sat around to draw on already). Looks to have pretty good gas consumption figures too

 

WE gets the nod if you plan to buy multiple different gas-in-mag guns as no one else is in the market to do that right now

 

WA design has the most likely cheap chinese parts support (for good or bad), the widest range of third party support and most realistic set of internals for those of us anal enough to be bothered by that :)

 

Pays your money takes your choice

Edited by snorkelman

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Wow, that KJ rifle seems all steel inside and outside.

That's mighty impressive and looks like it could be quite reliable out-of-the-box.

 

But I can't help it, I ventured into the GBBR world for the kick of more realism and simplicity.

Reliability sure, but if it's just about that, my AEG would serve me just fine.

If KJ just used the WA system, I would have said we have a winner.

But just like the WE system, I hate extras that make it look funny and unrealistic to disassemble/assemble.

The KJ has too many mechanical parts, a rubberband what the fcuk???, a hopup dial that is certainly ergonomic but ugly to look at, a nozzle that protrudes out of the bolt and the bolt itself doesn't look like the real deal.

That's too much to bear with. A pity really as the KJ seems promising, but only reliability wise.

 

I see it like snorkelman and Stealthbomber:

 

{...}

Going by the photos posted on the KJW I can get at least some of them in steel straight out the box in a 290 dollars or so gun

 

On the AGM I can add ALL of them to the 120 dollar gun for 80 bucks right now, and probably for less than 60 by this side of chrimbo

{...}

{...}

I hate to say it but I hope the KJW gun doesn't turn out to be very reliable or accurate.

All it's doing is messing up a market that already desperately needs to sort itself out.

Beyond that, I'm not keen on the ugly hop-up adjuster or the strange mechanism so it'd almost be a shame if it did turn out to be the most practical gun of the type.

I know that sounds a bit harsh but it's just starting to feel like the whole market is gonna go bonkers to me.{...}

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Hi Everybody. ;)

 

WA design has the most (..) realistic set of internals for those of us anal enough to be bothered by that :)

 

No. The most realistic replica of Colt's M4 is Inokatsu MTW. WA/WOC sucks (no Gas Tube inside Upper Receiver and weird Buffer Retainer, even size of Receivers isn't similar).

Maybe AGM costs about 110$ and have to choice lot of parts but c'mmon Magna is about year in use and we already know this system is very expensive.

You have to spend hundred bucks to get it useable.. and I know ppl who did it.

They bought cheap AGM and then gradually spent lot of money for parts.

Now they have cheapy looking guns for the price of MTW.

So in WA/WOC maybe you have choice with parts but it's delusion.

It won't shoot good if you won't buy parts for 400$(or much more for AGM).

 

I had WA/WOC, MTW and now I'm waiting for KJW.

Glad there is lot of steel parts and non-leaking mags able to shoot 2 full-loads.

And I'm only worried about Bolt Carrier(I've damaged two in Magna) but hope the good, old Tanio did well.

 

We have to wait.

All 3 systems are new and only time will show the truth.

 

As you say "Pays your money takes your choice".

 

 

Sorry for off-topic.

 

I have few minor questions to Donut.

What is the made of Charging Handle and Bolt(front part and rear part)?

Is there chance to get pics of disadsembled Lower Receiver with parts?

Could you define how many bb's was fired and still bolt is ok?

Edited by Amadem

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yep and which of the three platforms is the MTW based on? WA KJW or WE :rolleyes: I mean did you see me list it seperately to make four categories rather than three and then rate it in second place? Nopes I lumped it in with the WA design cos to all intent and purposes thats what its an even more accurate derivation of.

 

You need to spend over 400 dollars on parts for WA to get it to shoot right and much more on the AGM - Sure total parts spend on the AGM has been 500 odd bucks in parts, but seeing as it costs 120 dollars to start with the fact the parts spend amounted to 130 or so more than your 400 of parts figure is kinda academic, as the overall spend is still less.

 

edit -actually I'll snip the rest as its taking Donuts KJW review off topic enough already, apologies for that.

Edited by snorkelman

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Why are you trying to hold this platform to a different standard than another? A sense of elitism? And none of the WE seem particularly trouble free either...

 

No, I am not. I am setting a goal for what all GBB should achieve out-of-the-box. Yes indeed, we all know WE, WA, G&P and AGM have light to severe problems, that is the reason why I still haven't bought one (though the funds are available).

I am looking for a platform that will only require minor fixes ($15 bolt catch, $0.02 O-ring) every year rather than every skirm!

 

If the KJW platform can deliver, hell, I'm buying one. But based on one review (no offense at all Donut!!), I find it very hard to judge whether this platform is capable of doing just that or not.

 

It does look like KJW has started well, using lots of iron/steel parts, but only time will tell if they have used the right materials in the right places.

 

I'm looking forward to reading more.

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snorkelman is saying that the WA design, i.e. what WA engineered, G&P and Inokatsu (and more than likely VFC too) improved upon and what AGM cloned and Dboys are soon to clone is currently the standard operating system of the GBBR world. As it is the system that currently has the most support. Think of as WA = Microsoft, WE = Mac, and KJW = Linux.

 

And G&Ps have the gas tube inside the upper receiver by the way. And I don't think anyone is too bothered about a wierd buffer retainer...I'll agree Inokatsu do have the more accurate receiver dimensions. But is that worth an extra $400 just for that over a G&P.

 

Ooops, bit slow. Got sidetracked.

Edited by hitmanNo2

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And G&Ps have the gas tube inside the upper receiver by the way. And I don't think anyone is too bothered about a wierd buffer retainer...I'll agree Inokatsu do have the more accurate receiver dimensions. But is that worth an extra $400 just for that over a G&P.

 

75712107.jpg

94324366.jpg

 

 

Yes but for extra $400 you got Ino from Ra-T with steel Bolt Carrier - not the crappy chinese-metal from WOC. :huh:

Did you ever got the MTW?

C'mon men is the different gun from WOC..

Edited by Amadem

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Brining this thread back on topic from useless GBBR bickering (guys, we're all fans of different things, this is a review of the KJW M4 GBBR)...

Donut, I'm really interested in this for some cool projects. What's the inner barrel like? GBB style? VSR style? AEG style? Just a big long piece o' pipe?

Appreciated!

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Let me remind some questions, please:

What is the made of Charging Handle and Bolt(front part and rear part)?

Is there chance to get pics of disadsembled Lower Receiver with parts?

Could you define how many bb's was fired and still bolt is ok?

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Think of as WA = Microsoft, WE = Mac, and KJW = Linux.

Thank You B.G. for all the bugs in Your #@$%@!!! windows o.s. ;-)

 

WE is not Mac. WE is black horse, or this role will pass to KJW who knows ? The only thing i would say, is that us customers should feel happy that another GBB gun is on the market. By saing another i dont mean WA system clone or upgraded clone for more money or better upgraded clone of WE. I mean new design new idea of GBB. May be this rifle turns up to be much better in performance than any other GBB on the market for less money.

Edited by Nazio

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From what I'm hearing so far it sounds more like the KJW is the Mac... it may not have standard compatibility with aftermarket wares but it just works.

 

And being a guy who likes things that just work and don't need any extra money spent on them to make them work reliably I am somewhat interested in the KJW/Koba M4. I couldn't care less if the internals look like the real steel, I just want it to look reasonably accurate on the outside and shoot reliability.

 

 

Anyhoo, great review Donut! ^_^

I'm really glad to see someone picked up the KJW and it's running reliably for you. I did have a few pretty basic questions though I'd love to get an answer to if ya would humor me...

 

(1) Will the gun shoot and cycle reliably on 134a/Duster gas? If so, could you by chance post up some MPS or FPS numbers with 134a or Duster gas?

 

(2) In some of the pictures on the first page it looks like you swapped the original outer barrel for a shorter AEG outer barrel. Does this mean that the outer barrel is AEG compatible and can be swapped for different length AEG outer barrels?

 

(3) Is the inner barrel and hopup rubber AEG compatible or is it a proprietary design?

 

 

 

Thank you again for this review and I'll be keeping my fingers crossed hoping you might be able to answer some of these questions ^_^

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WE is not Mac. WE is black horse, or this role will pass to KJW who knows ? The only thing i would say, is that us customers should feel happy that another GBB gun is on the market. By saing another i dont mean WA system clone or upgraded clone for more money or better upgraded clone of WE. I mean new design new idea of GBB. May be this rifle turns up to be much better in performance than any other GBB on the market for less money.

 

 

Couldn't agree more

 

Donut, please keep us posted with updates. I have a feeling everyone is waiting for the first shoe to drop on this thing.

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Finally get my own KJW / Tanio Koba M4 and can say something more.

I am user of MTW and WA/WOC so will try to compare 'em.

It's shoots 3-4 mags (about 90-120bb's) with semi-automatic fire on one gas fill.

M4 from Tanio Koba is louder than MTW or WA/WOC but the recoil is lightly worse.

Upper and Lower Receivers and Charging Handle are made from Aluminium.

Texture of body is worse than MTW. It is flat black and looks like King Arms(AEG), G&P(AEG) or WE.

 

Most of the lower receiver parts are made from Steel (not sure about Fire Selector and Magazine Catch because of paint).

The construction of Lower Receiver is different than Magna but still close to RS.

Fire Selector is locking from below, and it works like the RS (you can't safe before charge).

Bolt Catch is better solved and is solid like in RS.

Buffer Retainer is locking like in RS but get different shape.

The only weird thing for me is assembling of buffer tube (you can check it from manual below).

KJW M4 is compatible with RS stocks(little loose), MTW and WA stocks.

I do really like the magazines - they're well made, fit excelent to gun and there is no loose at all.

 

Upper Receiver is also well made. Ejection Port catching nicely.

There is working Forward Assist. Front of the Bolt Carrier is made from some plastic's material (nylon/zytel?)

and tt looks solid - but time will show how much. The Bottom and Core of Bolt Carrier is made from very solid metal (surely better than Carrier from WA/Woc).

Outer Barrel is compatible with AEG and it is made from 2 Part (front Steel, bottom and Front Sight Base propably alu or painted steel), Compensator (Flash Hider) is also made from steel. Front grips is well-fitted and good quality (like G&P).

Inner barrel and HU rubber is new design (like the HU chamber).

 

I can't tell so much about shooting because I've shoot about 500 bb's.

Accuracy on 10ft (30 meters) is good. It's hit the beer's can all the time.

 

I hope this helps you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjty0aaha48

 

dscf3260u.th.jpgscan0002mbd.th.jpgscan0003p.th.jpg

 

(1) Will the gun shoot and cycle reliably on 134a/Duster gas? If so, could you by chance post up some MPS or FPS numbers with 134a or Duster gas?

 

(2) In some of the pictures on the first page it looks like you swapped the original outer barrel for a shorter AEG outer barrel. Does this mean that the outer barrel is AEG compatible and can be swapped for different length AEG outer barrels?

 

(3) Is the inner barrel and hopup rubber AEG compatible or is it a proprietary design?

 

1. Didn't check it yet.

2. Yes outer barrel is Compatible with Marui AEG barrels.

3. No, it is completely new thing.

Edited by Amadem

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Thanks Amadem for backing me up :D

Nice to see another KJW user, we must make those non-believers see the truth.

I've got a question though, did you get a spare buffer tube spring and plug in your package?

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(..)we must make those non-believers see the truth.

I've got a question though, did you get a spare buffer tube spring and plug in your package?

 

Huh yes, but KJW / TK is such a nice gun and I hope it will be seriously system(finally!).

Specially for that price.

I hope it will break the habbit of spending thousands $ to get our GBB to running well.

 

No, I didn't get the spare buffer spring, btw I had an problem with unmount the whole Stock Tube( Screw (Part 52) is puted as hell)

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Hmmmm, interesting, since I got an extra spring and plug for my gun and it made the recoil much harder.

 

The thing about the KJW is that instead of WA, G&P, etc, it's a GBB first and replica second. Instead of trying to replicate a real AR and shove a GBB system into it, the KJW is more of a GBB that's made into the shape of an AR. Which imo, works much better.

 

 

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Hmm, this is sounding really rather good. If I didn't already have an AGM, I'd probably see about picking one of these up... Though, I'll be sure to look into one if I'm ever in the market for another GBB M4.... Which I probably will be :D

 

Any idea of the consistency of this thing, and any ideas on downgrading it to UK limits? I'd be running one of these on propane and nothing else, so having it at skirmishable velocities would be nice.... And you can't exactly just go buy an NPAS for this, with it being so new.... =/

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Still interested in hearing how it cycles on 134a or duster gas (which is usually 152a). eHobbyAsia reports 290 FPS on 134a so the velocity would be just fine, I just want to know how well it cycles on the lower powered gasses. If it still shoots good on 134a/duster than I might consider picking one up ^_^

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Jin, working on it, when I'm not so lazy.

 

But on another note, there is no reason NOT to get a KJW M4 anymore, unless you're a complete purist and must want the closest GBB M4 to real steel. Then you go ahead and spend your money and more on replacement parts.

New discovery, the KJW takes TM barrel!!!

 

DSC01065.jpg

It's a bit tight, but it fits, and works. That's a TM P226 barrel next to the KJW stock barrel.

So basically, you can use any high quality VSR10 barrel you want.

 

Score one more for KJW :D

 

And more pictures

DSC01066.jpg

DSC01067.jpg

 

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Wait, the end of a VSR-10 barrel (based on pictures from PDI) is the same as an AEG...

 

No, it isn't. It's the same as that used in TM's pistols.

 

There are, however, a couple of VSR chambers that let you use AEG barrels and rubbers, though why you'd want to is beyond me.

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So this means I can't use a twist barrel in a Koba weapon !?

 

You can use one no problems. As long as it's got the VSR/TM Pistol end to it, it'll fit fine, by the sounds of it.

 

For example; Here's a TK twist barrel for the TM VSR and compatibles:

 

http://www.fire-support.co.uk/product-info.php?id=2683

 

UK shop, yeah, but you get the point. The barrels exist for this type of fitting.

 

I'm personally more interested if it also uses VSR style hop rubbers; if so, then there's a lot of high-quality choices already on the shelves....

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