Thanks BP for ruining our beaches with oil

[Stealthbomber]

Regulatory and monitoring organisations need more power to find and stop malpractice. But they also need to be totally unbiased and incorruptible, as the major issue with many of them is they are to easily influenced by those they are supposed to be investigating.

The big problem is that it'd have to be the government who can force such regulation to happen and, if regulation means the cost of oil production rises significantly then the price of fuel will go up and that's gonna lose them votes.

 

It's a bit like the whole deal with smoking in the UK.

The government make noises about how evil smoking is and how it's a drain on the NHS but, regardless, the amount of revenue they earn from tobacco is probably enough to bankroll the NHS so they quietly let people carry on smoking and just tax the living sh*t out of them while they do it.

 

As I say, it just seems rather 2-faced the way Obama has already spoken at length about how BP should be forced to pay for all this.

All well and good considering the alternative (legislation to enforce better working practices) would cause huge expense to private industry, loss of dividend to investors and a consequential increase in fuel prices that'd see his government booted out at the next elections.

 

 

*EDIT*

I thought this had already been mentioned but, upon review of the thread, I seem to be mistaken so it's worth mentioning...

 

The Deepwater Horizon was actually owned and operated by Transocean, a Houston-based company.

 

That's worth bearing in mind the next time you're listening to Obama prattling on about how BP is to blame for all this and cursing the evil "British" company for polluting your beaches.

[Seraphim989]

There's a certain irony to the fact we've decimated a whole country over oil - and I'm talking about the american relationship with Kuwait here, rather than any speculation about the fate of Iraqi oil supply - (including it's population, infrastructure, habitat, wildlife, industry etc) during the Gulf war and you don't see many Americans being too concerned about it.

 

Lol wut? Kuwait has so much money now its ridiculous. The citizens there are extremely well off.

[Stealthbomber]

Lol wut? Kuwait has so much money now its ridiculous. The citizens there are extremely well off.

I was talking about Iraq.

 

You guys don't seem to interested in compensating Iraqi citizens for damaged property or lost income etc.

[Jon L]

Lol wut? Kuwait has so much money now its ridiculous. Some citizens there are extremely well off.

 

fixed that for you.

[AceOfSkulls]

you cant blame BP, they are there to make a profit and do the bear minimum to do so. If the US had regulated like it should of there would be no spill, there would just be the tragedy of the workers getting killed.

 

Its not america bashing, its the TRUTH. Everytime something bad happends stop looking for someone else to blame and look at yourselfs.

[Seraphim989]

I was talking about Iraq.

 

You guys don't seem to interested in compensating Iraqi citizens for damaged property or lost income etc.

 

You aren't really aware of what a war entails, are you?

 

Also John, I appreciate your help, but I prefer to write my own posts. Go to some research. Loads of foreigners move to Kuwait because of the high standards of living

[Stealthbomber]

You aren't really aware of what a war entails, are you?

I bet I'm more aware of it than you'll ever be.

 

As I said, I'm just making the point that you (in America) seem to feel that it's just "tough luck" for Joe-Iraqi if he gets his factory blown to bits etc.

Ok, fair enough.

 

Why a different attitude toward a disaster in your own country though?

You pay lower taxes and enjoy the benefits of more spending-money yet you whine when your government can't provide the neccesary support after a hurricane demolishes a city.

You pay lower fuel prices and enjoy the benefits of that yet you seek compensation when the companies providing you with that cheap fuel have an accident.

 

Where's the "tough luck" philosophy when it comes to domestic incidents?

 

FWIW, you must realise that the rest of the world sees america as a country that'll sue their grandmother at the drop of a hat, right?

The way you've reacted to this oil spill just seems to confirm that attitude.

[Panoptes]

You aren't really aware of what a war entails, are you?

We British, more than any...

[REVOA4]

Lower industry standards would mean there is a higher liability, or risk, for who is performing the work, or in this case who has bid and accepted the contract. Risks assumed should be placed on whom? Fault is on who ever has prepared the contract and also who has chosen to accept work within the set contract.

 

Seems our British friends think this an attack on the British because of the name BP, which is a household name as British Petroleum (like it or not), appears BP is in the process of re-branding...but doing a horrible job at it. I have no one to blame but our own country for this, and I think that goes for most American's as-well, so don't put words in our mouths. It’s also not necessary to compare apples to oranges and take personal insult to the mention of "British Petroleum". I’m sure the British have great oil drilling standard’s, they must be better at drilling oil then say…setting up new servers?

 

It’s funny to see all the emotion of some of the posters, it’s clear that the feelings towards America go a lot deeper then what we are talking about.

 

 

 

[ThaFlash]

The oil rig was built by one company (haliburton?) owned by another and operated by BP. The accident happened under operation, and contractual as well as legal liabilities lead to BP being liable. BP has also owned this disaster from day one, stealthbomber seems to be the only person who has a problem with this.

 

Nobody blamed an evil British company, but BP just happens to be a British company. Stealthbomber is the only person who wants to make this about the British screwing the Americans. Sorry, but we just see this as a tragedy and a disaster, one in which the corporation responsible as well as the government have taken strong actions to mitigate damage done, but we also see this as a tragedy that we would like to prevent in the future. This disaster is just a sobering reminder of how we need to protect our environment and citizens because corporations don't care about anything other than their bottom line.

[GuzziHero]

Halliburton. Nuff said. One company where the entire board should be on trial for genocide. And the trial should be held in a civilised country, with a fair and just legal system. Almost anywhere but the US would suffice.

 

Was this an engineering failure or an operational failure? If it was engineering, it has nothing to do with BP.

[ThaFlash]

This thread has single handedly killed the notion that Americans are ignorant, one-dimensional creatures next to their European brethren.

[Azulsky]

For the record its not BP's fault.... BP owns the block, the oil. They do not operate the process of getting the oil out, that was contracted to TransOcean.

The Rig was built by Hyundai FYI, the BOP is made by Cameron Engineering out of Houston.

 

The suites filed against Halliburton accuse them of not properly cementing/capping the well, but that only lines them up for the rig itself. However they report that that protocol was followed.

 

http://www.halliburt...nws_043010.html

 

 

The Blow Out Preventer is a hydraulically actuated sealer which is supposed to prevent all this, but interestingly enough only Norway and Brazil mandate backup actuation systems for the BOP like acoustic sensor based activation. More disturbing is the fact that they cant close it manually with ROVs. Even with very high estimates of the output of the well it is still believed the BOP partially closed. It is possible that the bad cementing process damaged the BOP, however the cement casing in a well is done below the BOP and the BOP is tested and this one did pass.

 

http://www.rigzone.c...asp?a_id=92765&

 

Interestingly enough there was a BOP failure in the Timor Sea last year and it took 10 weeks to successfully drill the relief well so perhaps more scrutiny is needed there.

 

Apologize for the detail Ive been getting the rundown from a friend who is a Mech/Petroleum Engineer.

 

It is very coincidental that this comes along when they want to expand offshore drilling. Honestly I think they still should but they need to simply up the ante with the engineering of safety systems, especially when they dig exploratory wells so deep like this.

 

 

 

I think it will be a while before the nitty gritty comes out on exactly what happened if it will at all

 

 

The thing that has me churning right now is that this "dome" technique for containing the spill they want to try did not work in the last oil incident(97?), so its just getting hopes up...

[Chimpy]

The oil rig was built by one company (haliburton?) owned by another and operated by BP. The accident happened under operation, and contractual as well as legal liabilities lead to BP being liable. BP has also owned this disaster from day one, stealthbomber seems to be the only person who has a problem with this.

 

Nobody blamed an evil British company, but BP just happens to be a British company. Stealthbomber is the only person who wants to make this about the British screwing the Americans. Sorry, but we just see this as a tragedy and a disaster, one in which the corporation responsible as well as the government have taken strong actions to mitigate damage done, but we also see this as a tragedy that we would like to prevent in the future. This disaster is just a sobering reminder of how we need to protect our environment and citizens because corporations don't care about anything other than their bottom line.

 

BP isn't really a British company it's a mahoosive multinational. However I agree it's not about anyone screwing anyone. Quite how we've managed to get from BP as a company being potentially liable for the spill to reperations for war damage I dunno.

 

This is a regulatory failure and making BP pay the bill is in effect post hoc regulation. Other companies see if they cause a spill based on the minimum regulatory standards in the USA then they may be forced to pick up the tab. Now they just need to raise the standard.

[Chimpy]

This thread has single handedly killed the notion that Americans are ignorant, one-dimensional creatures next to their European brethren.

 

Yeah the reaction to this from some normally level headed people has been very suprising.

[Cyber Soldier]

Just pointing out that your government seems keen to make BP pay compensation to everybody affected by the oil spill while, at the same time, not seemingly so committed to the same sort of support for those who's lives have been ruined in Iraq.

 

Not sure what the connection to 9/11 actually is though.

Stealth, the linking of this disaster to The attacks on 11 Semptember 2001 (I don't like people ragging on 9 November, it was a good day for me, I got laid) after you clearly talked about Iraq is what is known as American Logic, we just have to accept it and move on.

[Scuffer]

Without trying to get involved too much in this debate/rant, just thought I'd add something....

 

When America users are getting their backs up about people seemingly 'yank-bashing' there are a few reasons for us (Brits) to lean that way as much as other parts of the world.......... on-going conflict in the middle east, sub-prime/economic crisis/recession, non-adherance to arms/climate measures etc etc *please note, this isn't my opinion, it's simply how these issues are presented to the world outside of the US*

 

On the back of issues such as those it seems a bit cheeky to search for somebody to blame when in reality you're reaping the rewards of casino captialism and have nobody else to blame but those in power.

[Misfit]

This thread has single handedly killed the notion that Americans are ignorant, one-dimensional creatures next to their European brethren.

 

Claiming an entire continent (or country, in the case of 'lul all amerkican r ignant') is ignorant on the basis of a few individuals is ignorance personified.

[Nicoli]

Just to lower the tone, as hey...that's all I know how to do..

 

Anyone else chuckle and get iamges of very bad '70s cheesey porno when they announced they were sending the 'Drillship Enterprise' to the area to help?

 

Queue Cpt.Kirk scifi porn jokes...

[Cyber Soldier]

Just to lower the tone, as hey...that's all I know how to do..

 

Anyone else chuckle and get iamges of very bad '70s cheesey porno when they announced they were sending the 'Drillship Enterprise' to the area to help?

 

Queue Cpt.Kirk scifi porn jokes...

Set vibrators to stun.

[Jon L]

You aren't really aware of what a war entails, are you?

 

Also John, I appreciate your help, but I prefer to write my own posts. Go to some research. Loads of foreigners move to Kuwait because of the high standards of living

 

Well first its Jon not John but hey its onyl my name right? Second "Go to some research. Loads of foreigners move to Kuwait because of the high standards of living" That would be the people that travel back and forth because the money is currently there. Or the poor asains/africans that end up as practically slaves labouring as maids or servants? Anyway i have done some reading in the area, but we are getting way off topic now so I shall stop.

[Kyrian_Zenda]

This thread has single handedly killed the notion that Americans are ignorant, one-dimensional creatures next to their European brethren.

Considering how you've somehow managed to misinterpret, mis-read and misunderstand everyone of Stealth's posts and turned them around by blindly waving the Stars and Stripes and demanding he retract his statements because it's AMERICA how dare you insult AMERICA, you have single-handedly reinforced the notion that all Americans are retardedly patriotic, hypocritical, short-sighted and unable to take responsibility for their actions.

[Stealthbomber]

This thread has single handedly killed the notion that Americans are ignorant, one-dimensional creatures next to their European brethren.

It has?

 

So far I've seen americans assume what they hear on the TV is gospel truth, get upset when people criticise their occupation of Iraq and demonstrate the knee-jerk response of seeking to litigate against somebody in the face of adversity.

 

All business as usual then. Good job.

 

BP isn't really a British company it's a mahoosive multinational. However I agree it's not about anyone screwing anyone. Quite how we've managed to get from BP as a company being potentially liable for the spill to reperations for war damage I dunno.

I was simply making the point that it seems a little hypocritical to wilfully wreck an entire country and not feel compelled to make reparations while, at the same time, immediately seeking compensation when some private corporation does something wrong domestically.

 

It's a small point of opinion in amongst the other factual information which I've offered but it seems that a couple of people would rather focus on that point instead of addressing the larger issues surrounding the inadequacies of regulation in the US petroleum industry, whether it's healthy for a government to endorse litigation or why there's an apparent media "spin" on this event which seeks to place blame on a "British" company even though all the parties directly involved were american.

 

This is a regulatory failure and making BP pay the bill is in effect post hoc regulation. Other companies see if they cause a spill based on the minimum regulatory standards in the USA then they may be forced to pick up the tab. Now they just need to raise the standard.

Indeed.

Endorsing punitive damages to BP could well cause contractors to revise their considerations when tendering for work in the Mexican gulf.

 

On the back of issues such as those it seems a bit cheeky to search for somebody to blame when in reality you're reaping the rewards of casino captialism and have nobody else to blame but those in power.

That's the crux of it all IMO.

 

It just seems that Americans are quite happy to sit there smugly chuckling about all the cheap oil they get from the Mexican gulf and then, when there's an accident, everybody from the President on down suddenly wants to put the blame on a (foreign) private company.

 

Given that it's a BP oil field and a Transocean drilling rig and a Halliburton(?) oil well and, at this point, we have no idea which, if any, of those companies actually did anything wrong, it seems a little premature for the media AND the bloody President to be preemptively pinning the blame on BP.

[AceOfSkulls]

BP are not that much at fault because its not there oil rig, its a oil rig based in US waters, owned by a US company and adhearing to US STANDARDS. IF it had been OWNED by a British company , BASED in UK waters and adhearing to EU standards, BY LAW there would be safeguards in place that would of instantly cut the pipeline off in the event of an explosion. There would also be ALOT better by law, safety proceedures and standards on the actual rig. Therefore logically its the US governments fault and the people who voted for said government and let Bush/Cheney de regulate the oil laws and block bills to put safeguards against spills inplace. So how is BP liable? other than it seems then actualy looking into what happends, the US governement (and by extension its people) seems happy to sue whoever seems responsible and move on.

 

Exactly the same happend too in the EXXON Valdez incident, what could be done to stop it happening again? who cares? Went to court, then Exxon went back a bunch more times to get the amount reduced which they did.

 

instead, push for tighter regulations. Im not anti american, thats just the way it is. Thats what always happends, someone says something not kissing the US's *albatross* and its instantly labled anti-american ######.

[Jon L]

well that seems to be the tactic used though, unless your agreeing with me I will derail the discussion onto some minor point and not address the real issue. I think it all stems from the two party system in america currently, now I know we in the uk have not exactly had the widest of choices but there are plenty of non mainline party mps in office (green and other independents). but in the us your one thing or another and they are both very similar.