Airsoft Turning to Paintball

[Seraphim989]

Well that guy up there is firing a real AK so it can be done, and that's hardly the only picture like that I've seen. But he probably missed his target, as he's missing the life jacket which provides +10 dexterity

[Cannonfodder80]

Yeah one of my team mates got a full auto burst in the face at point blank range at the Temple in Leeds who'd disagree with you. Very painful and very bloody and the offender didn't get dealt with at all.

 

Sorry but IMHO if your going knowingly go into a CQB game where full auto is allowed with no MED, then if you choose not to wear full face protection, you should accept the risk and consequences of taking a burst to the face.

[Ajo79]

Oh lord. That's some "bad" photos. But it seem they are playing in a paintball like environment/site and it's hard to do MilSim there. And those players more or less have paintball like mentalities I think. I just don't hope the "virus" spreads. But if you keep adding sites like those ones, speedball type arenas, I guess players will adopt.

[sear]

There is a local gamesite here a friend of mine played in. He was surprised to see a lot of players with aegs modified to shoot at 30 bbs per second (at that's what he thinks). After about an hour, he decided to leave because the game boiled down to how many bbs can you shoot instead of how well you can shoot with what you have. Personally, I like games that make you think to give a bit of realism. No sense in shooting a straight stream of bbs at a target that already moved. That said, I hope I my head cold clears up so I can go to CXG again.

[The Bushman]

Games with unlimited pellets, massive magazines/hoppers and ROF, open up the sport to people who have less skill. Simple as that.

 

The sad thing about the picture, with players running and holding theirs guns above their heads, is that to be honest, they will still hit people that way (after all they have high ROF, fps and unlimited mags/pellets, no recoil).

 

If you fire enough pellets at someone, you WILL hit them eventually.

 

That is why our group went the other way, years ago. We have 22 shots for the rifle to last 2 days and 1 mag for a gas pistol. That way, there is no "lucky shot" it is ALL down to skill. You feel pressure that you are low on pellets from the start.

 

Would not change it for the world. People can do what they want and speedball with Airsoft kit, etc, but people with more skill, will always see the downsides of that and move onto a game that offers more.

 

Good Hunting

[ssddismymotto]

Oh lord. That's some "bad" photos. But it seem they are playing in a paintball like environment/site and it's hard to do MilSim there. And those players more or less have paintball like mentalities I think. I just don't hope the "virus" spreads. But if you keep adding sites like those ones, speedball type arenas, I guess players will adopt.

See, the thing is, not even tournament paintballers have that mentality. I played for an nationwide tournament team, and we were coached to keep guns eye level and on the shoulder even while running and shooting (not dissimilar to what experienced airsofters do), and even though we were shooting 15.4 shots a second (league limit at the time), each one of the players knew exactly where their paint was flying.

 

Those speedsofters, that's a different type of form altogether.

[Agent Hunk]

But if my gun isn't shooting the maximum FPS and doing as many BBs per second as possible how can I hope to over come anyone?

 

In NJ that's been the trend and mindset of almost all new players. They see FPS limits as goals and strive to achieve them, while displaying no trigger discipline or anything of that nature. This past weekend a team mate had someone sneaking up on them. When they turned around to fire back they got a full auto burst to the face despite their ENTIRE body being exposed.

 

When you play airsoft you accept that things will happen but they are supposed to be isolated. Not every game...

 

I prefer games that limit things like ammo but all too often producers try to cater to everyone which just leaves everyone less then happy. I'd rather go to a game with 50 like minded individuals then 100 people looking to shoot stuff.

[ThumpMaster6]

Oh dear sweet mother-of-God!

 

3 THINGS I HATE...not too strong a word this time...:

 

..."BLOWING A HORN" to start a game...or yelling "GAME ON." Nothing says PAINTSOFT faster! But, if you're a small field, filled with converted airsofters, that's usually "all you can get."

 

...People not attempting to be "tactical" in their dress, movement or "play-style." I'll cut some slack to "poor" players with just a few games under their belt, and those who prefer to do a "contractor" loadout, if the scenario organizer's not a stickler for accuracy. But, you "play-by-the-homefield rules" or take your biz elsewhere...and even here in MARINELAND, we don't have options...YET!

 

...Not being inclusive of Paintball "converters"...they ARE coming to our game and we should WELCOME THEM....but they need to know HOW we play, play by OUR rules, or not be invited back the following week.

 

Its up to all of us to say "No, that's not MY AIRSOFT" and make it stick with other players, and with fields/event organizers.

 

THUMPY....OVER

[3vi1-D4n]

LOL, in my neck of woods, I have seen self-proclaimed "milsim" leagues and teams in PMC loadouts, some with no webbing. Their definition of "airsoft milsim" is paintball + scenario gaming with a milsim twist.

 

Funny thing is the Military personnel who play airsoft will buy into this concept as they don't want to do any form of planning, orders or otherwise important aspects which makes the experience work. They just want to shoot stuff.

 

These players currently outnumber those of us 100:1. There is no "Thats my airsoft", because that literally is JUST MY airsoft.

[Panoptes]

Funny thing is the Military personnel who play airsoft will buy into this concept.

Not this call sign...

 

Mind you, I do like to just 'shoot c*nts' sometimes.

[Equalizer]

I don't mind a more casual match every now and then, but even in 'backyard' games, I like playing with a certain level of professionalism, to me its just more fun. We start games at a designated time, instead of a loud noise of some kind everyone but designated support gunners are semi-only (by choice, usually) and some pretty clever tactics are generally employed by both sides. Its a relaxed environment, but a clean one. This situation is pretty ideal for me, save the fact that there are only about 10 of us on any given day

[3vi1-D4n]

I am all for keeping every game relaxed and clean. Ideally friends and players should encourage each other to do better in games, in better individual drills, better teamwork, command and planning.

 

However once players get the "I want to shoot stuff" mindset, all the "sticking with the plan", "sticking it out with the team" etc disappears. More often than not, there are more complaints in a casual game than a milsim game. For these players, instead of gaining the strategic advantage as a team, one engages in gaining tit-for-tat tactical advantages (from the legal - overupgrade weapons, to plain old cheating) which in the grand scheme of an airsoft game, is like winning by 0.01% in an election. And from there, complaints of cheating and poor weapons useage/overupgrades comes in. Teammates then complain that players don't watch their arcs and leave whole flanks exposed cos those same players want to go "get some".

 

All this behaviour takes away the professionalism, which takes away the fun and the camaradiere. Airsoft SHOULD have a level of professionalism, but most airsofters don't know any better.

 

Airsoft, if played properly can be more beneficial than a blank fire training, because you get to have a 2 way range where people can be hit, while the team can generate a hogwash right after an engagement to critique leadership issues and command. It eliminates the clustercuss that most armies experience during their training.

 

But again, there is such things as choice. Just that a lot of people prefer mindless shootouts, I don't have the right to tell people how to play airsoft.

[Equalizer]

Well spoken there sir... Just to clarify though, its not so much "I just wanna shoot stuff" as it is we play to have fun, without any kind of degradation shown by 'geardos' (a label I personally can't deny though, haha) to the newer players, hicap users, or the guy who didn't invest hundreds of dollars in tacgear. I'm all for it myself, but I respect the players who don't just as much. So long as everyone plays cool, I'm happy, regardless of what they're wearing.

[Counting Count]

With the concept of Speed soft / Paint soft / Arena soft (I can actually think of one or two places that do this arena soft type of game)I think the demographic of the players is quite important, the factors of age, experience and background all come into play (age and experience are not the same thing).

 

I'm in a position as an official at a club to see what's occurring throughout the games, and very recently a lot of Kids (Young, inexperienced) people have been floating through from the world of console gaming, with plain team death match games in there head and that's what Air soft (for them) should be, and for some it can ruin an otherwise good day.

 

Funny thing is the Military personnel who play airsoft will buy into this concept as they don't want to do any form of planning, orders or otherwise important aspects which makes the experience work. They just want to shoot stuff.

 

I personally don't agree with that statement but, there is a fine line between working with a group for fun and having a Busman's holiday, some serving / ex would rather play an effective game, but if the GAME or the DEMOGRAPHIC of the PLAYERS is leaning one way there's very little they (or anyone) can do.

 

I don't think there is any right or wrong way to play this game, it is each to there own, I don't like short (30 min) fast paced games deigned to throw 1000's of rounds out at a time, but some won't like the 3 hour objective based games, sadly there is no happy medium for the two, but organisers do attempt to balance it with a mix of long and short games.

[L473ncy]

age and experience are not the same thing

 

Heh..... I was actually thinking of something else that statement could mean. Usually the older ones will be more experienced and be able to teach you new things but young ones are good too. Not going to lie, I like older and more experienced.

 

Anyways..... I actually think this could be something deeper to how our culture/demographics has progressed. Think about it, watch a movie, commercial, some sort of modern media, or what have you. If you notice, in most movies there is a new scene or something happening like every three seconds (ie. Michael Bay movie = gunfire, explosions, girls, cars, aircraft, timebombs, optical flares galore, etc.).

 

I have kind of been put off video games because of this attitude of "run and gun" spray and pray mentality (*cough*cod*cough*). That said I grew up on games like Command & Conquer (never any good at it though), Army Ops (Americas Army, don't play it anymore since 2.3 came out or w/e), Operation Flashpoint, Ghost Recon etc. basically TACTICAL shooter, or strategy games.

[faramon]

Oh Ghost Recon those were the days, figuring out where every person is on a mission and then slowly but ever so surely taking them out.

[Marlowe]

I write this as a player interested primarily in military simulation and re-enactment of historical conflicts, but who also runs the fun-orientated MA games.

 

Airsofting is a recreational activity. It attracts a wide variety of individuals for a wide number of reasons. Some of these are, like me, drawn to the opportunity for realism (or at least, as much as using toy guns while pretending to be a military professional allows), while others are interested in the fun element - they see it as a slightly more realistic version of counterstrike (as was the popular gaming equivalent when I started airsofting) or Call of Duty (as it appears to be now).

 

Because of this there is a huge variety in what people enjoy in airsoft - and as a result a huge market for diversity in the airsoft sites which host games. In both the case of the players and the sites which cater to these players, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' choice to be made - merely a decision as to what the individuals prefer.

 

There is no ideal form of airsoft, and consequently no entitlement for anyone to preach what it should and should not be. It's worth remembering the origins of the sport came about not as a clear intended alternative to paintball. It was merely a case of the western market adopting the paintball trend, while the eastern market adopted airsoft. Hi-cap magazines have been around as long as the game itself, and while I prefer lo / mid-caps I recognise that for some situations / games, hi-caps are far more sensible.

 

Basically, stop complaining. Airsoft is open to everyone, and if people enjoy dressing up in skintight nylon and wearing paintball masks then erm...good for them. It doesn't affect my game - in fact, having more people interested in my sport raises the public profile of it - something which, given the constant campaigning in many countries now against military related hobbies, may be essential to its survival.

[Miah]

Wow, really nicely said Marlowe. As someone who helps admin a local non-milsim group I sometimes get so tired of comments/attitude from those who feel the game should never be played at anything less than their personal level of immersion. as long as it's done in a safe manner & it's an organized event of that style of gameplay, who else has any right to say they can't do it that way? It's their equipment & their game.

 

Now I would completely come down on players who went to a known tactical/milsim related event & behaved like the pics posted, that's just being a *wheelbarrow* & ruining it for others. There is a time & place for everything.

[faramon]

well you play by the site rules that seems to be the main thing to know, you can play how you like but not if that is in direct conflict of how the site is set up and the games they play.

[TheFull9]

..."BLOWING A HORN" to start a game...or yelling "GAME ON." Nothing says PAINTSOFT faster!

Balls. My site does exactly that, and it's a large woodland area that may not run hardcore milsim rules, but it's nothing like speedball. How you can suggest that the method by which a game is started entirely defines the style of said game is beyond me.

 

Marlowe has it right, end of the day the defining factor that makes a skirmish 'Airsoft' is the fact the players use soft air weapons, that's it. I don't want to play the sorts of games pictured in the OP, but all those people are doing is playing speedball with airsoft guns, it's purely a matter of weapon selection. That style is game isn't going to 'infect' the rest of the sport, because most people don't want to play that way, so there's nothing to worry about.

[LordElpus]

Balls. My site does exactly that, and it's a large woodland area that may not run hardcore milsim rules, but it's nothing like speedball. How you can suggest that the method by which a game is started entirely defines the style of said game is beyond me.

 

Marlowe has it right, end of the day the defining factor that makes a skirmish 'Airsoft' is the fact the players use soft air weapons, that's it. I don't want to play the sorts of games pictured in the OP, but all those people are doing is playing speedball with airsoft guns, it's purely a matter of weapon selection. That style is game isn't going to 'infect' the rest of the sport, because most people don't want to play that way, so there's nothing to worry about.

 

Agreed. you have to start the game somehow.

[danielsilva]

Agreed. you have to start the game somehow.

 

Whats wrong with using 130mm mortars ?

[Counting Count]

There is a BALANCED view and a view, a balanced view is right, not correct. no none here is right.

 

CKinnerly, is at least accurate, he may not be right (PLEASE DEFINE RIGHT), but he is accurate, we are all the same, by the medium, I myself may have an Idea, posted above (roughly 8 posts), I don't think I'm right, but as a "Marshall" I am, just to keep play flowing, and the PLAYERS SAFE.

 

I have PERSONALLY taken on board the attitude of many players as an UMPIRE or CS/DS, I may not agree but that's the way the games are going, with my current demographic at least.

[Agent Hunk]

People can play however they want. My issue is something I see here in NJ a lot.

 

Players with a paint soft and kill death ratio mentality showing up to objective driven games. It drives me nuts, especially when you task them with something simple and they disappear five seconds later because there wasn't enough action so the only players capable of taking objectives are stuck on the defense ALL day.

 

I don't think its unreasonable to ask that people attend the games they would enjoy. I don't attend games of a paintsoft nature as I would not enjoy it and complaining would ruin it for those enjoying themselves. But it seems like that crowd continues to attend games outside of that scope and complain and ruin it for everyone else which makes the live and let live idea go right out the window.

[Miah]

are there paintsoft games available in your area for them to join or are your objective based events the only game in town?