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WE P228 and G19 prototypes

kenxin

By kenxin,
in Airsoft News

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kenxin

kenxin

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You know youre comparing two different guns, even if theyre from the same manufacturer build quality and materials arent necessarily going to be the same. Not that it proves anything but i think the HK online retailers also claim it to be CNC.

 

Just out of curiosity (and since NonEx brought it up) can anyone compare the WE to the HK3? I am two days away from buying one of the gen 4 g17s and would like to know of any differences.

 

I was just using the px4 upper as a point of refrerence, obviously it has nothing to do with the development of the g19 or the p228.

 

The HK3 px4 slide has cast mould seam marks on the inside of the slide, maybe the we or hk3 glocks have those as well?

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IBMedic

IBMedic

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OK... should probably clarify a few things:

 

"CNCed" is more of a marketing term than any actual remark on quality.

 

All metal pistol slides have some degree of milling. What matters more is the actual process and what type of aluminum or zinc alloy they started out with.

 

The cheapest metal slide out there are cast zinc alloy with a bit of milling to get the kind of low tolerance inset angles that casting can't. Slightly better ones use "soft" aluminum (anything other than a 6000, 3000, or 7000 grade). This aluminum is cheaper and lends itself well to casting. Again, some milling is always done at the end (usually by hand) to get the sharp edges and insets (i.e. the slide rails). Usually, these slides are painted. Some may be anodized. I suspect the new WE/HK3P slides are made like this. The finish suggests anodizing ,and the clean lines suggest extensive milling. But it's a virtual certainty that they were cast to begin with.

 

Most the Shooters Design/Detonator/PGC/Prime slides are billet milled. This means that they start with a raw billet of 6000 or 7000 grade aluminum (with 6000 being much, much more likely, simply because 7000 is a lot more expensive and significantly harder to mill), and then mill it down by CNC. Then they're either anodized or painted (yes, even some high end after market slides are painted).

 

The result is that billet milling results in a lighter and stronger slide over the cast ones. But for airsoft purposes, this usually does not translate into any discernible difference. Anodizing vs. painting does usually look different though, I was super surprised when I say that WE/HK3P had started to actually anodize their slides. KSC/KWA pistols are still painted for the most part.

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fiddlesticks4220

fiddlesticks4220

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The HK3 glock is CNC'd from a piece of cast aluminum, very well done. If you need a piece from billet, then go buy one with the cash you saved... I cant see how that detriments the quality, no one else out there is releasing a gun with anodized/nylong fiber/cnc'd anything.

My observations are from the standpoint of having re-contoured and stippled the frames of 3 TM Glocks, 2 Guarder Glocks, 2 WE Glocks, 3 KWA/KSC Glocks, 2 KWA ATPs. Beyond how the guns feel in the hand, you discover much more about their frames' plastics when you start filing/dremeling/sanding the hell out of them, polishing, filling internal molding bubbles and then figuring out the correct melt point to stipple each one. You figure out which brands have a lot of internal bubbles, which are brittle and break up easily, which melt quickly, which get soft and weak when the wall thickness is too thin etc.

 

I'll check out the HK3P Glocks to see how it compares to the WE Glocks, but I'd be surprised if the plastic was any different.

 

Cool, in regards to all those guns up there... Been there and done that, bottom line is, the HK3 frame is not brittle. It resembles Classic Army G36 Nylon Fiber, and is super tough and a legit gun. Look for my TM to be listed in the BST forum soon.

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uscmCorps

uscmCorps

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Cool, in regards to all those guns up there... Been there and done that

As back handed as that statement is, I respect your differing opinion. I'm fine with us agreeing to disagree. People can decide for themselves by buying the product. Would love to see your "been there done that" work on any of the aforementioned Glocks. Curious to see how you didn't come to the same conclusions I did if you had done the same as I (which it sounds like you did from your statement). Sticking a soldering iron into a frame may not yield the same data as repeatedly performing extensive grip reductions and re-profiling like I did on multiple frames, but I'd be happily swayed with any actual opposing data you can provide so as to further inform me about the polymers used. I work with a manufacturer that heavily relies on plastics so my impressions are also guided by that and the samples and grades I've seen used in this industry. But mine is simply an individual opinion, and there are lots of them out there.

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intinerious

intinerious

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Yeah, I ordered a ton of stuff at the airport when I got off the train, I had a few hours to hang out :) .... MRP kit is OTW, and I found the Crusader Selectors at KICBB in Taiwan. My HK3 Glock is looking good, and I would be more than happy to purchase it over a Tokyo Marui if it was the same price or a bit higher. I am sure the Glock 19 will be no exception....

 

So what is up with these Sig's? I never checked one out in HK... I will when I come back :) ........ Are they WE made or HK3 produced?

 

Nice, no need to beat Noveske down to the ground for a selector after all :P For the Sigs there's both the HK3P one and the WE one, though from my sources they stopped making the HK3P one probably due to licensing issues. So from what I understand right now it's either no trades or WE trades. Pick your poison :(

 

Pardon me for doubting you, but are you absolutely certain that the WE or HK3 g17 is CNCd? because I have the px4 upper from HK3 and it sure as hell is cast (and not annodized, more like spray-painted).

 

I doubt very much that for the price you're getting CNCd aluminum.

 

The PX4 upper....no idea whether it's cast or not, as I haven't really inspected it much, but the slide is anodized for sure, except for the control bits which are painted, hence many people will see wear on the paint job of the control parts since they're high wear parts. Same with the G17 (HK3P...and maybe the WE one too). The slide is anodized for sure, as I mentioned in my review thread that my friend who pretty much beat the *suitcase* out of the externals of his HK3P stock slide the black wears DOWN and doesn't flake or chip off; the wear is akin to basically like a PGC MBK kit that's been through some rough times.

 

Anyway to get back on topic, I'm pretty sure the plastic and everything will be the same for the G19 as with the G17, WE or HK3P. There's really no reason why there would be any design differences that aren't critical, so I highly suspect that the trigger, mag catch, etc. will be the same between the 19 and 17. Would make sense too as it'll save costs in making another mold for those parts, and molds are expensive :P

 

Should be the same with the p228, though with the trademarks problem I would think the HK3P version might not have real trades, which is a bummer as I think one of the main selling points of the HK3P, other than it's cost to performance ratio is it's trademarks. :(

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IBMedic

IBMedic

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I just got the HK3P G18C in FDE.

 

I have to admit, despite my deeply entrenched distrust of WE products, these new pistols are something to behold. Polymer frame is far superior to the Marui version, the slide fit to the polymer is very tight, but still racks super smooth. Outerbarrel lockup with slide is both positive and smooth.

 

Only issue is the ease with which the paint on the control rub off.

 

I'd easily pay 50% more if they would anodize all the controls and put a teflon coating on the slide and outer barrel.

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intinerious

intinerious

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Any chance the 228 might show up in a trademarketed version later on, or should I just dive right into the preorder for the no traded one now?

 

It's been reported that the Sig traded HK3P versions no longer exist, probably because of trademark issues with Cybergun (I think they hold the Sig license? How Cybergun would affect HK3P, I dunno, I'm just guessing).

 

I'd say the same with the p228, unless someone can correct me if I'm wrong as I heard it being briefly talked about by some of my retailer friends but I never actually asked to confirm it.

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intinerious

intinerious

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Yes but AFC has a traded 226 of AirsoftGlobal so perhaps they will also make one for the 228.

 

http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51_297&products_id=15556

 

Basically a WE/HK3 226 finished off by AFC with trades and perhaps a new coating on the slide.

 

Well my source told me that all the HK3P 'factory' Sigs don't have trademarks any more. Therefore those AFC trademarked versions might be old stock. I'm not entirely sure whether my source is true or not as I haven't been looking into the p226 :P

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Mike_West

Mike_West

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Both out on RSOV, WE XDM 3.8 is out as well.

http://rsov.com/product.php?langId=1&currencyId=1&manufacturerId=10&prodId=16325&cateId=122

http://rsov.com/product.php?langId=1&currencyId=1&manufacturerId=10&prodId=16324&cateId=122

http://rsov.com/product.php?langId=1&currencyId=1&manufacturerId=10&prodId=16322&cateId=122

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FireKnife

FireKnife

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Wait, where the *fruitcage* did they come from?

 

Credit where credit is due, unlike TM it doesn't take an age to get from idea to final product, though that quicks brings into question their actual prodcut testing before one is sent out.

 

Though if they beat KWA to it with a Makarov they could corner the market in cheap Russian sidearms.

 

'FireKnife'

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thartwig

thartwig

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Wait, where the *fruitcage* did they come from?

 

Credit where credit is due, unlike TM it doesn't take an age to get from idea to final product, though that quicks brings into question their actual prodcut testing before one is sent out.

 

Though if they beat KWA to it with a Makarov they could corner the market in cheap Russian sidearms.

 

'FireKnife'

if they got aftermarket support they would DESTROY

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NonEx

NonEx

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FireKnife wrote:

 

Credit where credit is due, unlike TM it doesn't take an age to get from idea to final product, though that quicks brings into question their actual prodcut testing before one is sent out.

 

In case you hadn't noticed these are all just shorter versions of already released models so testing would of course be greatly reduced for these products. Not saying that testing was perfect on the full size versions but we don't really know how much/well they were tested.

 

Am I detecting a bit of WE/HK love from FireKnife aka. "the all things WE/HK hater based on old premises that no longer seem to apply" ?

 

pwned

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