Noveske Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Just saw on the news. UN just got raided on suspicion of illegally modifying airsoft guns to over the Hong Kong legal limit of 2 Joules: http://hk.news.yahoo.com/video/%E8%AD%A6%E6%96%B9%E6%AA%A2%E5%9B%9B%E5%8D%83%E6%9F%84%E7%96%91%E6%94%B9%E8%A3%9D%E6%B0%A3%E6%A7%8D-050200429.html What a pity. UN Co. has always been one of my favorite retailers. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 certainly shocked! hope its just a missunderstanding and they keep on the bussiness Link to post Share on other sites
Mike_West Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 OH NOES UNCO AM CLOSING!!!!1`!!~`1!!! Anyway, do the cops have any proof or are just screwing around? Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 At this point, it doesn't matter. It's now a case of making sure UN company have got a fantastic lawyer, that'll make sure everything is dotted and crossed. Link to post Share on other sites
chas Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 OH NOES UNCO AM CLOSING!!!!1`!!~`1!!! Aarrrgh!! You beat me to it, godamnit! 1st cent: Raided? For modifying airsoft guns over the FPS limit? Even if it's a criminal charge, and not merely and administrative iligallity, it seems a bit disproportionate. They didnt turn them into real firearms or anything. 2nd cent: I dont think the store will have to close for just that. EDIT: I just watched the video. Holy ! Are they crazy? Handcuffed behind the back and black hoods on the head? What the hell? Proportionality is not in their handbook, obviously. I dont know if they got this from the Brits or the Chinese, but this is absolutely crazy. Im not supporting violating the law, but there has to be a proportion between the infraction and the police and legal response. Even if they have to pay a huge fine, there's absolutely no reason to raid the storwe and treat the employees like that. Are we in 'Murricah now or what? Thank god there were no customers int he shop at that hour, could have ended up in Guantanamo... Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 When I saw the thread topic I thought for sure it was for their laser traded pistols. Joule limits, mweh. What a way to go... Those are some pretty messed up scenes in the video, looks serious. So... does this mean they are shut down all together now or did they just confiscate the suspected joule-breaking weapons ? Shame, I thought they were a pretty cool retailer, although their website is pooh. Anyone know what this mean in reality for them? Fines? Jail time? Execution ? Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Extreme sadness, all of it Link to post Share on other sites
NeoVeNoM Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 So in conclusion; Illegal use of trademarks? no problem! Over 2J limit? Thou Shall Burn in Hell!! Link to post Share on other sites
intinerious Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Aarrrgh!! You beat me to it, godamnit! 1st cent: Raided? For modifying airsoft guns over the FPS limit? Even if it's a criminal charge, and not merely and administrative iligallity, it seems a bit disproportionate. They didnt turn them into real firearms or anything. 2nd cent: I dont think the store will have to close for just that. EDIT: I just watched the video. Holy ######! Are they crazy? Handcuffed behind the back and black hoods on the head? What the hell? Proportionality is not in their handbook, obviously. I dont know if they got this from the Brits or the Chinese, but this is absolutely crazy. Im not supporting violating the law, but there has to be a proportion between the infraction and the police and legal response. Even if they have to pay a huge fine, there's absolutely no reason to raid the storwe and treat the employees like that. Are we in 'Murricah now or what? Thank god there were no customers int he shop at that hour, could have ended up in Guantanamo... The law defines a firearm as something that shoots a projectile over 2J. Whether it shoots out mushy peas at 2J it doesn't matter; that's what the Firearms Ordinance says, and that's part of the Laws of Hong Kong. The police are there to enforce it and it's not up to them to amend it; only the Legislative Council can. So if they have guns over 2J (and I'm sure they do, whether it's upgraded by them or they shoot 2J out of the box) they are breaking the law. Relevant HK Ordinance: http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_pdf.nsf/6799165D2FEE3FA94825755E0033E532/34B108CF0F217C6F482575EE00512A29/$FILE/CAP_238_e_b5.pdf Handcuffed is normal for arresting people here in Hong Kong...isn't this the case everywhere else? Also, the black hoods are meant to protect their identities. If I was an employee I'd like to get a hood too if I was arrested to protect my own identity Also they aren't officially charged with anything yet until the police department can ascertain whether any of the replica guns they have actually fire over 2J. Hong Kong's legal system is based on the common law; despite the fact that it's not perfect it's nothing like what you're making it out to be. Stop being so dramatic. So in conclusion; Illegal use of trademarks? no problem! Over 2J limit? Thou Shall Burn in Hell!! One's a criminal offence; guess which one EDIT: ^fixed some grammatical issues. Link to post Share on other sites
BIn Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 So in conclusion; Illegal use of trademarks? no problem! Over 2J limit? Thou Shall Burn in Hell!! should not? Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Fire arms are firearms no matter how sugar coated you look at it . Would be exactly the same over here if any one was stupid enough to stock an air weopon that breaks our laws for velocity Link to post Share on other sites
NeoVeNoM Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 well if they broke the law regarding the 2J, they should be punished, not burn in hell. With the 2J limit at least the law is common sense given that airsoft is used to shoot others in game. IN Belgium, as long as you stay under 7,5J It's ok. (obviously if you shoot someone with it, it's no longer ok) Link to post Share on other sites
BIn Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 well if they broke the law regarding the 2J, they should be punished, not burn in hell. With the 2J limit at least the law is common sense given that airsoft is used to shoot others in game. IN Belgium, as long as you stay under 7,5J It's ok. (obviously if you shoot someone with it, it's no longer ok) They are in HK, if any of the gun in their store over 2j. They are in trouble.try not to compare the law in two different countries Link to post Share on other sites
intinerious Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 well if they broke the law regarding the 2J, they should be punished, not burn in hell. With the 2J limit at least the law is common sense given that airsoft is used to shoot others in game. IN Belgium, as long as you stay under 7,5J It's ok. (obviously if you shoot someone with it, it's no longer ok) Well I never took your burn in hell phrase literally Different criminal offence when it comes to possession, manufacturing (not sure if that's covered in the hk ordinance, never browsed through the whole thing) and assault XD I guess your laws accommodate other types of projectile weapons other than airsoft. In hk given how everyone is so close to each other the 2j limit makes sense as it restricts almost everything but airsoft guns. I might have typos in my post... Sorry, posting with a phone is not very effective , as to the poster above me, I don't think neovenom was trying to compare the two laws in a way to justify or argue against the law in either jurisdictions. Link to post Share on other sites
bulmedius Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1222874/police-arrest-12-after-raid-air-gun-shop Heres an english article. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Shouldn't weapons included in the "firearms" category involve... you know... "fire" in some way? It doesn't pass a day without me thinking this hobby is not correctly depicted under any law in the world :/ Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 That makes sense. We have the same type of law here regarding that airsoft is regulated by the Joules output. Silly UNC then for breaking the law like that. Link to post Share on other sites
sandstorm Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Shouldn't weapons included in the "firearms" category involve... you know... "fire" in some way? It doesn't pass a day without me thinking this hobby is not correctly depicted under any law in the world :/ Well, ever since Napoleon lost his cool at being shot at with Emperor-hunting airguns and making their use in time of war a crime warranting extreme capital punishment, the airguns have been lumped in with firearms. Which, incidentally, modern guns rarely are, since there's a definition-difference between burning (fire) and detonation (explosion)... That makes sense. We have the same type of law here regarding that airsoft is regulated by the Joules output. Silly UNC then for breaking the law like that. Well, AFAIR, UNCo don't promote power options putting any airsofts they tune over 2J, but that won't matter if they are in possession of stuff coming from Taiwan or Chinese mainland with stuff that is 'too hot'. Could be getting iffy there in Sweden if customs started to test imported batches for being within limits before the importer tunes them to be within the law. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 In all honesty, I'm ambivalent here - most shops in HK still sell those Win Gun Co2 revolvers, all of which fire over 2J as stock. Except the snubnose 2.5" versions, which fire at 1.9J. And given that I've been to several games were people were shooting through green gas cans in the test range, or shooting through car windscreens I'd say there is definitely a market for illegally high powered airsoft replicas in Hong Kong. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Well, ever since Napoleon lost his cool at being shot at with Emperor-hunting airguns and making their use in time of war a crime warranting extreme capital punishment, the airguns have been lumped in with firearms. Which, incidentally, modern guns rarely are, since there's a definition-difference between burning (fire) and detonation (explosion)... Well, AFAIR, UNCo don't promote power options putting any airsofts they tune over 2J, but that won't matter if they are in possession of stuff coming from Taiwan or Chinese mainland with stuff that is 'too hot'. Could be getting iffy there in Sweden if customs started to test imported batches for being within limits before the importer tunes them to be within the law. Well, no. The rules for airsoft Joules are very generous, 10 - 30 joules. So it's a non issue in that respect. As for UNC accidentally importing 2+ joules weapons, I don't think that's what it's about. It sais that they actively modified weapons to exceed this limit. As for the WinGun/ASG/DW CO2 revolvers, mine specifically had a sticker on it saying "2Joule", so I think they kind of follow the requirement, but in practise they may very well exceed it if measured. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 In HK, possession of a firearm is a crime. Ergo, even importing a GBB which does more than 141m/s with a 0.2g bb is a crime, as is buying one, being gifted one, etc etc etc Link to post Share on other sites
MooCow Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 dammit... i was too slow on the UNCO am clozd meme... but to be fair, there are loads of airsoft replica (usually not mainstream) that CAN be capable of firing over the 2j limit in HK, but it's just a case of people misusing them or not... its intended purpose was never to harm other people really... im not going to echo the other comments regarding how a certain country has a different law so certain users question why UNco were raided etc... it's just over 2J, so illegal where UNco are. i think it's more to do with a knee jerk reaction to the recent increase of air rifle/airsoft related crimes in HK that triggered this raid. personal experience in the airsoft scene in HK, there're loads of snitches in the trade and my guess is that UNco had a snitch somewhere along the line to rat them out (but in the eyes of the law, if there're over 2J airsoft replicas, they are still breaking the law) not sure who it is or why they targetted UNco at first, but obviously speaking police dont raid unless it's a planned operation... just makes me curious on how the police got the tip they were doing over 2J... and only UNco was raided... i can see the rest of the shops in HK will be hiding the hotter guns in storage to wait until it's cooled off... or actually... do what they've been doing since forever... put a label on it saying 'export only' to hide it in plain sight. Link to post Share on other sites
bulmedius Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 It's as easy as getting an undercover cop posing as a customer to go in and ask if they're willing to modify a gun over 2J. I'm not sure however if they were doing this for everyone or just known customers Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 It's as easy as getting an undercover cop posing as a customer to go in and ask if they're willing to modify a gun over 2J. I'm not sure however if they were doing this for everyone or just known customers That's how S3 got done. Walked in with a hidden camera and asked if they would do a gun up to 2.4J. Shopkeep said yes, police came knocking the next day. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 That's how S3 got done. Walked in with a hidden camera and asked if they would do a gun up to 2.4J. Shopkeep said yes, police came knocking the next day. Ok, although I don't agree with illegal activities like this surely that is a double example of 'gene-pool and chlorine' syndrome? 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
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