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Skarclaw

Remove the 100 post limit on sales threads

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If you're still looking for a hurdle, one hurdle might be to simply add an application process and restriction of RIFs until they've got their first bit of feedback. So, the user reads the FAQ on how to access the classifieds, and PMs a sales moderator with maybe proof of site membership, a UKARA reg number, proof of age (If that's not too authoritarian!) whatever. The user's then restricted from the RIF section until they buy/sell something else, such as an accessory, gear etc.

 

Positives: 

 

  • It doesn't take too much effort for someone to apply that way, and ensures there's a system of checks in place to make sure that babby's first airsofter doesn't start buying scary black guns.
  • It helps the classifieds become a little more open, accessible. 
  • Encourages users to stick around in the community.

Negatives:

 

  • Effort for the sales admins (Counter: maybe adding a few more volunteers?)
  • Imposing, possibly, for someone to be asked for proof of membership or ID.
  • Someone selling something as a loss-leader, like an ASG shotgun shell, in order to get access to the RIF section which would be more lucrative if they wanted to scam.

 

Whatever happens, what I think needs to happen is for the classifieds to become VISIBLE much like the entire forum now - If you try to access the forum without an account, there's the news section and the FAQ which addresses how you can access the rest of the forum.

 

I think that would help for the classifieds, to have just a single post there saying "How do I gain access?" or similar. That way it cuts down on people making threads asking about how to access them, and it might convince someone to stick around a little longer - Even if they do sod off after the first 100 posts.

Edited by DrAlexanderTobacco

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I think i'm on my 41st post?

 

Anyway it would be better if it could be made clearer as to where my posts count towards My 100 because I have loads of stuff to sell. I do accept that i could use FaceBunce but then my feed just gets filled with pointless ad's, i also Refuse to use other forums because of certain other reasons (Mostly Mods being lazy!)

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I agree with dropping the 100 post block.

 

For a start, do you all honestly believe there is some secret barrier to being a member of Armies as well as Zero In?!? I'd imagine that 80% of Armies UK members also frequent Zero In....I think the thing that keeps Armies "honest" is the fact that it is an international site, unlike Z-in.

 

Its not just the sales section of Armies that's dead, everything here just seems stale compared to back in the day.....and let's not even mention the void that is GasGunsinfo.....

 

Zero In, while it has many hang ups, is a lively and vibrant place....so they must be doing something right!! Armies can dwell on this elitist attitude that it's somehow a "better" place to be, but.....and maybe I'm the only one that thinks it, this forum is running the risk of becoming irrelevant.

 

Just remember, those young "scrotes" and underage nuisances are the future of the hobby....whether we like it or not, Armies needs to attract those kids and help mature them within the hobby rather than take an aloof down the nose stance and stagnate.

Edited by Inq Eisenhorn
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Could there be a way to prove to moderators that you are a regular skirmisher, Ukara or proof from a site owner etc. And then be allowed straight into the classifieds.

I am happy to wait until I have my 100 posts but as others have said above I use Zero:in to browse classifieds, have bought many items from there, but I just feel that almost every thread I have something to add to, someone else already has. Hence been on there for years and yet my post count is not much above 100.

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Pictures with user names don't always stop the scamming. Bought an AEG off Z-in with a fairly decent picture.

What it didn't show (due to the angle) was that the outer barrel (and thus inner) was bent.

I think you're missing the point of requiring a photo with the user name of the seller shown in it, the idea behind it is that it broadly proves that the seller actually has what they are offering for sale and haven't simply lifted photos from a search engine or another forum, like everything it has it's flaws but it can also help prevent one type of scamming.

 

In your case the only way to have avoided buying a gun that would appear fine in a photo but is actually damaged would be to inspect it in person before handing over any money, that is just one of the risks of distance buying.

 

One option that kinda tempts is to trial an insecure sales area on here - it'd be a completely separate section. That way everyone could see the new sellers/buyers and treat it for what it was.

I think if we went down that route it'd be easier to just open up the existing sales section again, existing members (understandably) would post in the trial section as well as the existing ones in order to reach a larger audience which imo would make the 100 post rule redundant by default.

 

I do wonder if perhaps a lower post count requirement might be a better option, some people may see 100 posts as too much but something lower like 50 to be more realistic, the spammers who've been caught out in the past and turned out to be scamming people on other forums have all been spotted within 50 posts from what I recall anyway.

 

If you're still looking for a hurdle, one hurdle might be to simply add an application process and restriction of RIFs until they've got their first bit of feedback. So, the user reads the FAQ on how to access the classifieds, and PMs a sales moderator with maybe proof of site membership, a UKARA reg number, proof of age (If that's not too authoritarian!) whatever. The user's then restricted from the RIF section until they buy/sell something else, such as an accessory, gear etc.

Whatever happens, what I think needs to happen is for the classifieds to become VISIBLE much like the entire forum now - If you try to access the forum without an account, there's the news section and the FAQ which addresses how you can access the rest of the forum.

VCRA Restricted sales aren't the issue in question, although they form part of it, the issue raised by Skarclaw is the restricted access to all of the sales sections putting new members off staying here.

 

I think it's important to remember that this is an international forum, with a UK, international and US sales section, imho any sort of verification system should be fair and to me that means the same for all memebers regardless of what country they are in.

 

There is the issue of the work involved in checking site/ukara memberships as you say, also, fyi, no moderator here volunteered, the rule is if you ask or volunteer to be one you can't be one ;) The great thing about the current system is that it requires no work from moderators other than to suspend/ban those who try to spam their way to 100 posts, it's entirely automatic.

 

I do agree that the sales section needs to become visable to some extent though, ideally showing that there is one but the only topics within the sections being viewable explaining the 100 post rule and other relevent rules, if it's possible to set the permissions like that.

 

I agree with dropping the 100 post block.

 

For a start, do you all honestly believe there is some secret barrier to being a member of Armies as well as Zero In?!? I'd imagine that 80% of Armies UK members also frequent Zero In....I think the thing that keeps Armies "honest" is the fact that it is an international site, unlike Z-in.

 

Its not just the sales section of Armies that's dead, everything here just seems stale compared to back in the day.....and let's not even mention the void that is GasGunsinfo.....

 

Zero In, while it has many hang ups, is a lively and vibrant place....so they must be doing something right!! Armies can dwell on this elitist attitude that it's somehow a "better" place to be, but.....and maybe I'm the only one that thinks it, this forum is running the risk of becoming irrelevant.

 

Just remember, those young "scrotes" and underage nuisances are the future of the hobby....whether we like it or not, Armies needs to attract those kids and help mature them within the hobby rather than take an aloof down the nose stance and stagnate.

Who said anything about 'young scrotes'? I don't think anyone wants to discourage younger members from joining this forum, however most do seem to be in favour of a system that can prevent some types of scamming, although it does seem to push a lot of people to a certain forum that seems to have a reputation for scamming due to the higher chance of selling an item.

 

In that respect the 100 post rule seems a bit odd as it forces a lot of the supporters of it to use forums without the system.

 

I think it's very easy to blame the 100 post count rule for the lower activity on these forums as a whole, but I don't think it's as big a factor as some may think, a lot of forums seem quieter than the used to be before the global recession which don't have the same rule.

 

Overall I think all forums are less relevant anyway, most sites, retailers and manufacturers will just use facebook and similar sites to advertise and communicate with their customers as it puts all the work into one, or a smaller number of places.

 

You might say Zero In is doing something right that Arnies isn't, but what people can do here is actually mention any retailer they like which enables a lot of decent, informative information to be exchanged and publically recorded which would get deleted there, I value that more than universal access to a sales section personally.

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I dont think there is a link of wanting to sell something and becoming a regular contributor. I go on Z1 if im selling something or looking to buy something. I dont post there otherwise. Look at the majority of people who are selling stuff there and they are only selling/buying, the actual number regular posters on Z1 is smaller than you would think.

 

Arnies is better for selling/buying , all my experiences have been positive in that respect. People are easy to check up on and generally know more about what they are selling. The 100 posts also stops hit and run posters who have nothing to lose if something goes wrong or if they miss sell.

 

User bases expand and contract, its just the way it is, people who come here to sell will already be members of communities and more than likely woouldnt stick around. As others have said, there are so many airsoft groups in all shapes and forms that the user base is way more spread out.

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I think I consider myself a noob still on here and I have been airsofting and on arnies for coming up to 2 years. As with someone else I am not rushing to up my post count but at this rate it is going to take me 4 years to qualify for the sales section. I am no spotty yoof I am a beardy old git.

 

While I can understand the desire to maintain the status quo does it not seem a little daft to have a restriction that can take 4 years for me or even 8 years for an earlier poster (4 years in and approx 50 posts gone) to qualify for. You can get a degree in that time!

 

With the restrictions limiting the qualifying forums and the traffic levels limiting opportunities to post legitimately wouldn't it be senaible to perhaps revisit the limit?

 

Without wishing to open a UKARA/VCRA 3 games in no less than 2 months type can of worms ;) how about a number of posts / membership time combination. 20 posts and min 6 months say? It would show some dedication and commitment to the forums but not be easy and quick to do.

 

If you don't allow newer folks in, in a sensible time scale, the sales section may not have enough people qualifying for access for it to be sustainable.

Edited by Mike 8-{>
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100 posts is easily achievable over the space of a few weeks without spamming. We all managed it...

 

Arnies is a community, with a sales section too, not primarily a sales forum.

 

To be honest, I'm glad there's a criteria, as it really does whittle down the impatient noobs, and actually encourages people to think before they post.

 

I was selling some kit, and signed up to zeroin to aid that. The amount of *fruitcage*wits on there is truly unbelievable, and as a result o don't visit there any more. I would hate to see arnies go down that road.

 

Fine as is for me :)

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Please do not lower the limit. The benefit is that it forces people to become active in the community, and very rarely have I seen someone who bothers to boost 100 posts (far fewer even succeed thanks to good moderation). 

 

There are plenty of places to buy things; the benefit of Arnie's is that I know I can trust those who I buy from, and I have made many friends here who I can buy or trade from with complete confidence. 

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Nice to see all the replies guys. It certainly helps us all here get an impression of good people feel. I will have a look at all the options. I think from reading the consensus that things don't need to change greatly but the night be a few tweaks we can do to help out.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

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I agree, Arn. Personally I can't speak for those that have to / are working towards 100 posts as I reached that number well before the rule easy introduced.

I do think there might be something in lowering the threshold slightly for a trial run and see how it goes. Perhaps 50 or so posts and member for over a month?

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I agree, Arn. Personally I can't speak for those that have to / are working towards 100 posts as I reached that number well before the rule easy introduced.

I do think there might be something in lowering the threshold slightly for a trial run and see how it goes. Perhaps 50 or so posts and member for over a month?

 

The problem I have with this is 50 is still not a lot, and I'll be damned if I get effed-over by someone just because we wanted to "try" it.

 

I think maybe doing a 100 posts OR 50 + membership time would be a little safer.

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100 posts is easily achievable over the space of a few weeks without spamming. We all managed it...

 

Arnies is a community, with a sales section too, not primarily a sales forum.

 

To be honest, I'm glad there's a criteria, as it really does whittle down the impatient noobs, and actually encourages people to think before they post.

I only post where I can make a useful contribution to the community or where I have a question I can't find an answer to. I could post more but I feel I would be posting just for the sake of it and that rankles with me. I have no great urge to the sales forums although it would be interesting. I am just finding the qualifying conditions seem a little stiff for people in my situation trying to comply with the rules ;) Edited by Mike 8-{>

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Either you're here for the community, in which case you post, or you're here just to sell stuff in which case you don't bother.

 

I think that's the point of the limit, and it does work. Arnies is not a Sales website by design, and instead has it tacked on. It is a community driven discussion forum, and although that is waning I would agree with an earlier poster...would you rather see it die a death after a glorious fire, or limp on as a mutated shell of its former self. I definitely sit firmly in the former's camp.

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On a related but also not related note.

 

Is there any way of having Proof of Defence matched up with a forum profile? Be it UKARA, UKAPA, UKAB, Skirmish diary, game site membership, or anything else?

 

Now that I've said that, I'm not sure how it would work, or how practical it would be... Discus.

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If someone doesn't want to hang around long enough just because they can't sell anything, I wonder just how valuable the content of their conversations are? Traffic slows down, sure, but wanting voices for voices sake is just noise. This here has just about the widest and most insightful resource for opinions/reviews on guns and tech. We do get a lot of lurkers because of that. Maybe take into account people who visit and not just the ones who are chatty?

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Hey, atleast you can spot sarcasm.

 

Yea, what RC said.

 

I mean the people saying they have been on here for four years and have'nt reached the count... you havent averaged 25 posts a year and you dont like the limit?

 

Thats like 2 and a bit A MONTH.

Edited by AceOfSkulls

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Hey, atleast you can spot sarcasm.

 

Yea, what RC said.

 

I mean the people saying they have been on here for four years and have'nt reached the count... you havent averaged 25 posts a year and you dont like the limit?

 

Thats like 2 and a bit A MONTH.

Actually if I'm correct then everyone who has posted in this thread who has under 100 posts has supported the present system ;)

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I mean the people saying they have been on here for four years and have'nt reached the count... you havent averaged 25 posts a year and you dont like the limit?

 

I have to agree with this a bit, I'm afraid. If you're a long-time lurker, good for you; rule 33 is an incredibly important one. But at the same time, you're not really contributing to the forum so much as you are haunting it if your post frequency drops below a few posts a month. The 100 posts rule is intended to limit Classifieds access to users that regularly contribute to the forum, because that means an investment of time, and that's something that damages scammers' cost/benefit analysis.

 

I appreciate the desire not to spam the board with pointless posts, but if you haven't had 100 things to contribute, then it's pretty clear that you can't demonstrate the kind of commitment to contribution that the 100 post rule is intended to secure.

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To me, a limit of 50 sounds just fine.  Every time, literally every single time I've spotted someone spamming their way to it, is has been absolutely screamingly obvious what they're up to, there's no way on earth anyone with half a brain cell wouldn't spot the tactic within about 20 posts.  Pretty sure I've reported such class acts myself in the past as I'm sure have others and the mods have definitely spotted them.  It's always the same, you enter a sub-section, look down the info on the right and it's a huge chunk of the same name under 'Most recent post' and a huge portion of the time they're mistakenly posting in sections that don't count towards anything; which yet again makes them dead easy to spot.

 

I also think the pictures section (for example) not counting towards the primary post number is pretty damn backwards IMHO.  I'd wager I've added more content and info to this board in photos of guns/gear than through written posts, but that's the stuff that doesn't count?  I won't be the only one in that boat either.  It takes a *fruitcage* ton more time and effort to get a really cool looking, high quality, well lit, well setup photo of a RIF you've dumped even more time and effort in to building than it does to waffle some *badger*s in the 'The Game' section.  Any bloody moron can rattle their hands on a keyboard, I prove that on a daily basis.  Posting up pictures takes at least a few more IQ points.

 

I'm not sure of the exact reasoning why that rule was brought in but I vaguely recall something about stopping people upping their post count with any old rubbish pictures of the same gun being posted over and over, or just saying "nice gun!".  But example 1 doesn't happen and if it does those posts can just be reported as spam.  If example 2 happens, exact same thing and it's incredibly blatantly obvious when someone's doing it.

Edited by CKinnerley
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I appreciate the desire not to spam the board with pointless posts, but if you haven't had 100 things to contribute, then it's pretty clear that you can't demonstrate the kind of commitment to contribution that the 100 post rule is intended to secure.

 

I don't know the history of Arnies with respect to this, but the vast majority of forums that have a minimum post level before access to certain sections (normally for sale and/or forum discount sections) is solely to try and prevent dodgy traders and nothing to do with contribution levels.

 

Some one who sits in the background for a year is likely to be just as trust worthy as some one who actively posts for a year.

 

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The trouble is though there is no way to tell if someones been lurking and there is nothing to stop somone just making a profile and waiting for a period of time (not saying that is likely).

 

I have been contacted on Z1 by someone with no posts but an account a few years old and they were extremely dodgy.

 

I dont think they would be as trust worthy either, its not just someone has posted. It gives something to lose and means by the time you can buy/sell its easier to find someone if something happends.

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