Warrior 1 L96 reports

[Shifty-PK]

On the other hand, if employees who build this weapon have 30 mins instead of 15 mins that could mean the weapon becomes twices as expensive. Especially if they would make more checks during the build process to see if something went wrong.

 

This is what you pay for, and thus this is what you want. You pay 1/3 of the price of the original version and you get 2/3 of the orginal gun.

 

In europe there are some laws which prevent business from selling certain china products, like shoes. They are very cheap made in china off course, but what europe laws did is they put 60% taxes total on it which makes the product as expensive as the europe manufacturers of shoes. Of course this law doesnt apply for every product, but this is how europe protects his own market and manufacturers against cheap products made elsewhere.

 

Excuse me for this offtopicing.

[Stealthbomber]

On the other hand, if employees who build this weapon have 30 mins instead of 15 mins that could mean the weapon becomes twices as expensive. Especially if they would make more checks during the build process to see if something went wrong.

 

This is what you pay for, and thus this is what you want. You pay 1/3 of the price of the original version and you get 2/3 of the orginal gun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TBH, I doubt that the labour is even 10% of the overall cost. Given that the gun sells for about $40 in HK, they could sell it as a self-assembly kit instead. Having it arrive pre-built is almost just an afterthought.

 

I don't want to get too deeply into it but I do have quite a bit of experience of the area.

Although it sounds like a cop-out, it's not really their fault.

They get terrible pay and no bonuses or incentives to do a good job. There's nothing to reward good behaviour and they're probably on a unit rate which means they get paid directly in proportion to how many rifles go out the door.

Added to that, the factory owner probably only cares about providing crates full of guns to people like Gunner. He's not out to get a reputation as a world-class airsoft retailer. If The warrior L96 gets a reputation as a pile of junk he'll either start making lampshades or rubber chickens or car air fresheners instead.

 

Unfortunately, the over-riding philosophy of pretty much everybody in China is to simply "not care" about anything that isn't their responsibility.

Most western companies spend a lot of extra time and effort designing things in idiot-proof ways purely so they will end up with a reliable product after it's been assembled in a chinese factory.

[DarkLite]

Unfortunately, the over-riding philosophy of pretty much everybody in China is to simply "not care" about anything that isn't their responsibility.

Most western companies spend a lot of extra time and effort designing things in idiot-proof ways purely so they will end up with a reliable product after it's been assembled in a chinese factory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True - a big part of this is that in China, you can't really sue someone without huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amounts of work.

 

In the west you can sue someone for not putting a warning sticker on a can of coke that tell's you it contains coke.

[lineman66]

If we must speak about the the status of the Chinese economy, then let me say that right now China is probably has more of a capitalist economy then anywhere else in the world, even more so than the United States. What does that mean? It means that Chinese economics is all about the profit... purely about making profit so that cutting some corners here and skipping a few steps there is acceptable if it keeps production costs lower or manufacturing time shorter (thus keeping them competitive in the world market) and let's face it - most of us use things made in China everyday, we often joke about how it's poorly made and won't last long, but why do we purchase those products knowing that they may not last as long as their more expensive counterparts? Well... because it's cheaper! I think that as a few older members of this forum pointed out many times, airsoft is a grey market sport, where you really do get what you pay for and there are mostly no guarantees, especially if a person decides to take a risk and purchases a product made by a company of unknown reputation at a much reduced price. Now the companies that are making the clone airsoft guns happen to be in China and to some extent, Taiwan, and for good reason because they are very creative people and good at reverse engineering. However, it is precisely that capitalist drive to make profit which directs Chinese firms to clone more expensive airsoft guns and in doing so, they have chosen to take shortcuts and left their final products with imperfections, which ranges from batteries that explode to a terrible hop-up unit to a simple misfeed every now and then. To conclude my long-winded statement, I believe that the Chinese clones are, in reality, good for the airsoft community as they create lower cost alternatives for people looking for spare parts, a base for a project gun, or simply can not afford anything more expensive. The products continues to be improved and refined, and in the end, we can only remember that our beloved sport/hobby is a grey area/niche market and with that, buyer beware.

[rolling-thunder]

To conclude my long-winded statement, I believe that the Chinese clones are, in reality, good for the airsoft community as they create lower cost alternatives for people looking for spare parts, a base for a project gun, or simply can not afford anything more expensive. The products continues to be improved and refined, and in the end, we can only remember that our beloved sport/hobby is a grey area/niche market and with that, buyer beware.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree on that,long may China keep feeding us what we want.I know quality will have to go up eventually as the market floods & the need for longer lasting better quality products arises!

[biosniper]

Trouble is though that in order for the quality to go up we have to buy the slightly worse quality goods in the first place. Catch 22

[zentaurus]

Trouble is though that in order for the quality to go up we have to buy the slightly worse quality goods in the first place. Catch 22

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that the Chinese clones are, in reality, good for the airsoft community as they create lower cost alternatives for people looking for spare parts, a base for a project gun, or simply can not afford anything more expensive. The products continues to be improved and refined, and in the end, we can only remember that our beloved sport/hobby is a grey area/niche market and with that, buyer beware.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

and this is really how we get improvements. japan, korea, taiwan, china, and soon, probably also vietnam will get into this pos-better-betterer cycle which overall, IMHO, benefits the airsoft community. it's not really a catch-22, biosniper , it's just the normal way of a development spiral

 

can we return from airsoft supply economics now ?

 

he, he, he, otherwise renegadecow will start another thread for Warrior 1 L96A1 technicals

 

cheers to all,

 

zT

[Docv400]

...If The warrior L96 gets a reputation as a pile of junk he'll either start making lampshades or rubber chickens or car air fresheners instead...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rofl *conjures up image of a skirmish with rubber chickens, players wearing lampshades instead of helmets and lobbing air fresheners instead of pyros*

[Pendra]

The only problem I see with clone guns is this scenario:

TM spends heavy money for R&D. They have to sell X amount of guns to get the cost of the R&D back. After that the gun sales generate profit. This profit than can be invested into making newer and better guns.

Now, the Chinese company steals the desing. He saved the R&D costs, so he can sell the gun for much lower price. The average user is happy, because he can get 3 well designed clone guns for the price of 1 original.

This evemntually lowers the sales (and the revenue) of TM. This means the R&D costs will be returned later and the current projects will suffer delays. At one point I can imagine that TM goes bankrupt and gives up on R&D.

As there will be noone to actually invest into R&D (Chinese will not for sure), the AS tech will just stagnate.

[MagnetoPenguino]

Yeah, I see that, too.

 

Hopefully enough people will invest in a TM or other high end AEG after experiencing a chinese gun or two.

[lineman66]

Companies also operate differently. Take, for an example, ICS, which designed their split gearbox feature for the M16/M4 line of AEGs, which was very revolutionary in the realm of AEG technological development. There are companies out there that want to do nothing but copy existing products to crank out lower priced clones, but then again, there are also firms that aim to make a product better, thus cornering a sector of the airsoft market with their new products.

[gunfighters]

please stop with the "they are riping off TM, Poor TM" .. yes it is true to one extent or another. but its just pay back for all the trademarks TM rips off and put on there guns

every is "stealing" form everybody, Tm has been in the lead for years, and will contuen to..

many people forget that companys like UHC have been copying TM products for years...

think those silly batt powered minys-TM made them first, EBBs with the silly stick mag-Tm again

saying the Chinese will not indvest in R&D is just plane silly(SDV, metal body SG1, USP AEP any one) as the companys grows they will start there own products, just like ICS and CA did.

ok so back on topic

anyone have picts of there groups??

[Shifty-PK]

And im intrested in some picture about the magazine empty fix, because a picture says more then thousands words...same as the bolt-cock-indicator

[Pendra]

I need a bit of a help here! How can I dismantle the hop-up unit? It seems mine is messed up royally. The barrel is installed UPSIDE DOWN!!!! This means the little window for the hopup looking downward.

How come I always pick the guns with the MOST hidden problems in them .

About TM stealing trademarks. Trademark stealers try to convince the unaware buyers, that their products are made by a well known company. This way, the clone company save the advertisement costs. Ironically, some of the fake stuff are actually better quality than the geniue products .

Now TM never told the buyers that their guns are made by Colt or HK. They use the trades to create an authentic look, not to fool the costumers. That is a big difference. The box has big "Tokyo Marui", "6mm Toy gun"... markings so only illiterate people can be fooled. What is next, sue them for writing "5.56" onto the body? That must be a big lie and deception of buyers, since it uses "6 mm" ammo instead of 5.56 or 7.62 or whatever. I hope you see the point.

About the innovation. The internals of the current AEGs are not simple designs. I'm sure there are hundred or thousands of work hours in any of the gearbox versions and internal gun layouts. Engineers had to specify everything, where to drill a hole, what gear size and ratio to use, what RPM to use, how to fix the V2 into the body... After the design is complete, it is easy to steal and clone it. I think CA never come out any original design. They just copied the TM internals with better outside looks. Ever wondered why did it soo long for CA to make V3 gearboxed guns? I think the special rights, that protected the V3 design has just recently expired. ICS did create the innovative V2 split gearbox. It was more expensive than a CA or a TM. Plus they didn't do anything since that. STAR's L85 was also a good innovation. Too bad it was just a slightly modified minimi gearbox, not a brand new design. Chinese USP AEP uses the internals of the Glock which was devenloped by TM. They just modded it a bit. But what if TM never made a Glock AEP? Chinese would have nothing to modify therefore they would have never produced an USP AEP.

To mod some existing tech is fairly simple. To create a totally new tech is darn expensive.

[renegadecow]

I need a bit of a help here! How can I dismantle the hop-up unit? It seems mine is messed up royally. The barrel is installed UPSIDE DOWN!!!! This means the little window for the hopup looking downward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

GAWD! Thank you! I thought this help center was doomed.

 

First, you have to unscrew the tip of the barrel off. Unscrew the little phillips that holds the magazine lever on the barrel. The whole hop-up/barrel assembly should then pop out forwards with a little convincing.

 

From here, disable the hop by unscrewing the hop screw right out. Remove the aluminum colar that pushes the hop rubber down. You can see at the part where the inner barrel meets the hop chamber that there is a brass colar; unscrew this brass colar off (you may need some pliers). Once off, the whole inner barrel with hop rubber pulls out from the chamber. Stealthbomber wrote about discarding a small plastic ring of unknown use. I threw mine out since it was badly shattered (cheap plastic). Do note that this part is actually what keeps the inner barrel and hop rubber from rotating within the chamber. Simply re-tighten this engagement with some teflon tape in place and you're good to go.

[hsimoorb]

saying the Chinese will not indvest in R&D is just plane silly(SDV, metal body SG1, USP AEP any one) as the companys grows they will start there own products, just like ICS and CA did.

 

No chinese company makes an origonal SVD. The JG "SVD" has an AK receiver, and the grip and handgaurd were likely copied off of the King Arms SVD. ANd they did not make thier own SG1, they waited untill after TM had made thiers, and then CA made thiers.....and they didn't make an AEP untill TM had made thiers, and I doubt they did anything but copied some GBB USP frame for thier model.

[Pendra]

Thanks, but I managed to dismantle it around 4 o'clock in the morning. I also hot glued the trigger box, while it was stripped, thanks for the tip earlier. Got an MP001 bipod today and installed it without much problem. I just had to enlarge the hole thingy under the front section a little bit.

I didn't remove that shatterd plastic thing at the end. Maybe I will do it next time, but it seems it doesn't make any difference. I had a hard time with the assembly thou. The hopup rubber kept rotating to the left. I had to disassmenble-reassemble it plenty of time to get it centered. I think I will carve a straight line into the bottom of the upper section. I will mark where the cocking part should meet the barrel part and where the hopup should meet the outer barrel. So whenever I reassemble it in the future, I just have make the lines on the different parts meet and it is done. The little rubber thingy, that should push the hopup was missing. I made a V shaped one out of the plastic cover of a thick wire.

I couldn't fix the empty mag marker, because I couldn't remove the cover plastic plate. It is impossible to remove the screws without splitting the receiver. BTW it would not work in my gun even if I fixed that, because it is not lined up with the trigger on the mag. I would need to dermel about 1mm from the body to allow the marker on the mag to move...

Funny, but hey, I have an AWP .

[The Big Bad]

I am getting one as my christmas present. and have been watching this topic carefully as to how to fix/better my gun. i am making a comprehensive list of things i must do when i get it

[Stealthbomber]

Regarding the empty indicator, mine still barely works simply because the follower in the mag has molding flash on it so it doesn't move up quite as far as it should.

 

I'm shocked to hear that Pendra's barrel was installed upside down.

The BE, Cyma and DE guns coming out of china these days are pretty decent quality.

It seems strange that the Warrior L96 is put together so much more haphazardly. They must be being built in a sweat-shop above a bordello or something!

 

Ah well, I can only say that I still think the parts are fundamentally sound. I reckon you really, really DO need to strip this gun down and rebuild it as soon as you get it though. Before even taking a single shot with it.

[Pendra]

Here is a beauty shot with the MP001 bipod installed without the adapter pin.

[Docv400]

Seems to me, the first thing to do when you get one of these is strip it down to the last nut-and-bolt, then rebuild it properly, only after checking every single part...twice. Am I right Stealth?

For the price, I can live with that.

[sirrith]

so if i read the topic right, its compatible with aftermarket parts for the maruzen type96, right? if so, i might end up buying one and giving it a full internal upgrade

[Shifty-PK]

Regarding the empty indicator, mine still barely works simply because the follower in the mag has molding flash on it so it doesn't move up quite as far as it should.

 

I'm shocked to hear that Pendra's barrel was installed upside down.

The BE, Cyma and DE guns coming out of china these days are pretty decent quality.

It seems strange that the Warrior L96 is put together so much more haphazardly. They must be being built in a sweat-shop above a bordello or something!

 

Ah well, I can only say that I still think the parts are fundamentally sound. I reckon you really, really DO need to strip this gun down and rebuild it as soon as you get it though. Before even taking a single shot with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you got this working 100% without the proper bipod pin or is this just a picture for show and there is no good replacement for the bipod pin found? You could have cleared this up once making the post since it isnt noted before.

[DarkLite]

The WARRIOR 1 is made by WELL.

 

Hence the terrible QC.

[doopydoo]

AAAAAH oooo aaaah. Thats it.

 

Anyone got shipped a dead gun?