Ghost_Rider Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Ok, there seem to be two very distinct camps here: On the one side, users like myself who don't like Western arms and find them to be unreliable skirmish pistols. On the other, we have Snowman (whose opinion I utterly respect when it comes to GBB) and others saying that they're fantastic bits of kit. What I'm looking to do here is come up with a definative answer once and for all. Rules: 1) NO FLAMING. Flames and trolling will be reported to the mods. 2) This poll is only concerned with your direct experience; you should have owned or at least handled the pistol you've commented on. No hearsay here, please. 3) Out-of-the-box reliability only. I want baseline figures here, so custom guns are excluded. 4) Defining reliabilty: All GBB's vent gas in cold weather. General GBB behaviour such as this does not necessarily make a gun unreliable as this is a problem that is not restricted to make or model. If your gun is particularly resistant to this, note it in the history section. For the purposes of this poll, unrelibility is defined as failures to feed/double feeding, structural integrity failure (such as a cracked slide, or the gun disintegrating into parts in your hand) or abnormal gas issues such as a faulty blowback mech. Please answer the poll, and then post your exprience in the manner below: Pistol owned: KWA 23f Cost: £120 new last year Reliability: 4/5 Retailer of pistol:Z1 History: Bought new from Z1, I abused this gun. It was my first GBB, and it saw extensive use at pretty much every skirmish I attended. Fed with Abbey Ultra for its entire service life. Issues arising: None. The gun still worked flawlessly when I sold it on a month ago. It survived falling down a flight of stairs at LFU and still kicked. One of the mags was left for a fortnight in the long grass at my local woodland skirmish site, and when I stumbled across it again it still fired and fed perfectly. PLEASE DO NOT VOTE WITHOUT ALSO POSTING YOUR EXPERIENCE! Link to post Share on other sites
xRAZERx Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistol owned: WA Delta Elite Cost: £165 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol:Elite History: I used this pistol right out of the box with Abbey Ultra and she shot like a dream, there have never been any problems apart from the expense of magazines Issues arising: None. I've also owned a few other WAs and am getting another next week. I would pick them over any other gunbecause I like the quality of their build and the trades I also find the WA pistols easier to hold because of the build materials. Link to post Share on other sites
snowman Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Can you qualify what you mean by reliability, too. I ALWAYS find KSC/KWA Glocks vent gas. Is that unreliable or is a broken ABS slide through using Propane/Green Gas unreliability? BTW, you realise your poll will simply produce a measure of how many people own which make, don't you? Pistol owned: Too many to mention Cost: From £10 to £200+ Reliability: ???? Retailer of pistol:Various History: Tried lots - Only ever had a KSC Glock 19 mechanically fail. WAs I've bought with problems have been easy, and cheap, to fix - KSCs harder to get parts for. Little experience of TMs - Too expensive and poorly finished for my taste, although I hear they are getting better. Issues arising: This doesn't tell anyone anything, does it? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I'm hoping the poll will also throw up those who bought pistols of whatever make and found them to be lemons. I'll stick a reliability defenition in my original post. Link to post Share on other sites
multigl Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 too tough to call. I've seen a friends KSC 93r fall to peices every time he used it. Damn pistol was nothing but problems. However, my KWA glock 19 is a tank. Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Please stick to the format of the poll. I'm trying to create a resource here, although I have a sinking feeling it ain't gonna happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistol owned: TM P226 Cost: about £80 including shipping and import duties Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol: UNCo History: Bought new from UNCo, several hundred rounds fired on propane. Has not been skirmished. Issues arising: None. Only way I could get it to malfunction was by deep freezing gun and magazine to -21 degrees C for 20 minutes, then firing it, which caused the magazine to dump the gas on the second shot. Link to post Share on other sites
alecamused Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistols owned: TM m9,tacmaster, WA p14 prokiller, wilson csg, KSC g18,93RII,[tmp],[spp] KJW p14 Pistol voted: TM M9 Cost: $100 new '02 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol:WGC History: Bought new from WGC, used it regularly with greengas for games and plinking around. (+3000rds through) hardly any maintenance... Issues arising: None at all. Accurate like on the first day, crisp action... Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistol owned: TM Glock 26, KWA Glock 19, KWA M11A1, KSC USP Compact, KSC M945, WA 1911 IED 6", WA P14.40 Para Ordnance, WA Vreaker 12 Gilded, KJW M9 Elite 1A Cost: All about £100(ish), some second-hand Reliability: TM = Very good KWA = Average (went through 2 M11s before I had a working one, and my G19 is now broken) KSC = Faultless WA = Below average, but Vreaker 12 has been flawless Retailer of pistol: Various, some second-hand History: TM G26 was my first GBB. No real problems. WA 1911 IED had a mag leak. KSC USP Compact has been FLAWLESS. KWA M11 was ######, then I got another one that was ###### as well. The third one was fine. KWA Glock 19 was great, until it started to vent gas after 4 shots. KSC M945 was fine. WA Para Ordnance was ###### - the mag sort of exploded, and wouldn't hold any gas at all. WA V12 Gilded is fine, apart from occasional leakage when the mag is cold. KJW M9 hates cold weather (poor efficiency and power), but it a fine gun in warmer weather. Issues arising: See above, I guess. So far, WA have been poor, apart from my V12. KSC have been the best, and TM have been excellent, although I've only owned one of their guns. Link to post Share on other sites
bronney Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistols owned: 2 x KSC USP Compact (Taiwan), KSC Glock 23F (Taiwan), KSC Glock 19 (Taiwan) Pistol voted: KSC Glock 19 (ima convert, glocks are just so damn solid and easy to service, though real close to usp, sex? glock; love? usp) Cost: in hong kong dollars | uspc $620 glock 23f $530 glock 19 $520 all 2005 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol:UNCo. History: Bought new from UNCo. At least 20 mags thru each and still going strong. Sold the 23f for a 19 because I skirm with it and the fire selector is just plain scary to holster. Issues arising: None at all. Except the "old" usp compact broken safety from me upgrading the hammer spring for no reason. Human error as other common issues. It's usually the user that bugger up guns Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 This is great, keep 'em coming peeps. Link to post Share on other sites
Basho Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Ok ok Pistols owned: TM Desert Eagle Hard Kick - Few weeks old from new. Flawless skirm gun (got a guy in the head at 20 meters on tuesday). A beast to play with, large kick. Only ever jam due to me firing too fast, 2 sec fix. WA Delta Elite - second hand, minor upgrades. 500 rounds through it to set the hop up. Perfect action. TM MAEG 18c - ok not a gas gun, but *beep* guys talk about a killer. This pistol is fantastic for skirms. Deadly. Old unidentifiable 92fs. Owned for 10 years (!), mostly metal. Has threeshot, semi and auto blow back. Skirmished 4 times. Taken out of retirement three weeks ago. Fires like a dream although not as accurate as modern pistols. Takes green. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 KJW FMV G23/KJW FMV G27 Reliability- Incredibly good. dropped the 23 in a river filled with muddy, brackish water, pulled it out and fired it straight away, no jammage. 27 is equally good, dropped it down stairs and came up firing. Niether gun has ever jammed. Retailer: 23 from WAr4Toys, 27 from S3 Price: $550HKD for G23, $450 for G27 Issues: none. Seem particularly good in vold weather up to a point. Whilst my friends' WAs and KSCs started venting at around 12 degrees, my glocks only buggered up at 8 degrees and below. Current Status: Both sold to newbie friends, both 1 year old, both no probs. Link to post Share on other sites
Corporate_Black_Ops Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistols Owned: Western Arms Para Ordinance P14.45, Western Arms Limited Edition Gilded V12, Western Arms Limited Edition Gilded V12, Western Arms Beretta 92FS Perfect Version, Tokyo Marui SOCOM (Mk23)... others. Pistol Voted: Tokyo Marui SOCOM Cost: £120 Reliability: 4/5 Retailer: Fire Support History: Bought new. Skirmished regularly though used infrequently. Run on AE Winter. Issues Arising: Mag seals blew out when tried on Green, perhaps a dodgy mag as I'm told they shouldn't have a problem with it. I've actually had less issues with the WA pistols, but (with the exception of the P14 since its metal slide) all of them have been exclusively run on 134a. A NBB is always going to be easier to recommend for reliability over a GBB however. I'm with Snowman here I'm afraid, Western Arms are my standing recommendation for our team's blowback pistols. Link to post Share on other sites
McMadkat Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistols owned: KSC G19 plastic slide KSC G19 plastic slide (got two of em you see) KWA G19 metal slide KWA G26c custom plastic slide KWA G18c full metal version HFC M190 plastic slide (another reliable gun) KJW M92 Full metal version in silver (so far not too bad) TM Desert Eagle HK in chrome! (oh yeah baby!) Pistol Voted: KSC Glock 19 Plastic slide Cost: £70 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer: Wolf Armouries History: Bought 2nd hand with only 100 rounds through it, always run on Green gas, had over 5,000 through it without a jam/misfeed! No cracking or damage to slide anywhere. Pistol: KWA Glock 19 Metal slide Cost: £65 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer: Airsoft Armouries History: Bought 2nd hand with about 1000 rounds through it, always run on Green gas. Works well, althought the slide cycle time is slower than the plastic slide KSC G19. Pistol : KJW M92 FMV Silver Cost: £70 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer:2nd Hand (maybe bbtoyz.co.uk) History:Bought 2nd hand with only about 150 rounds through it, works great! internal finish is a bit on the low side compared to a HFC or TM. Nice metal finish, but scratches badly. Mag gas only last for 18 shots on fast firing, lower than a HFC or TM. Overall good, but a bit dodgy quality in places. Pistol :KWA G18c FMV Cost: £60 Reliability: 3/5 Retailer:USA History:Bought from the USA 2nd hand, very unreliable due to being work out when it arrives, overall very fun gun though! Pistol:TM Desert Eagle HK Chrome Cost: £140 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer:Any UK History: Got it non-working, fixed it up, works amazingly now! Very reliable apart from the mag leaking beforing being fixed. Pistol :KWA G26c Cost: £35 Reliability: 1/5 Retailer: 2nd hand bust! History: Got it work much non working, fixed it up with a G26 slide, very unreliable due to it being bodged around, from new I would give it 4/5. Although the KSC and KWA guns appear the same, the KSC Glocks seem to be more reliable than the KWA ones, having said that the KWA Glocks are still fine out of the box. Favourite: TM Desert Eagle HK in chrome. Perfect gun! Fires 320fps on green, very accurate, got mine to shoot over 50m using hop and aiming! Awesome for skirmishes, not quite as high on the reliability scale to the mag seals being a bit iffy at times. 4/5. McM Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistol owned: TM Mk23 SOCOM Cost: £105 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol: Wolf Armouries History: Bough new a year ago. Been used quite a bit. Never given me a problem at all. People have said it has a heavy and sticky trigger. It's true the trigger-pull is long but it's well-defined and predictable. So much so, in fact, that you can load a BB, cock the hammer and then release the trigger leaving the gun in single-action mode. Not terribly keen on the plastic slide but thems the breaks. Silencer is excellent if a little shiny. LAM is dire but it's possible to modify to make much better. Pistol owned: KWA Glock 19 Cost: £65 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol: Airsoft Armoury History: Bought a year ago. Used for absolutely everything. Never failed me yet. Never jammed or done anything terribly annoying. Doesn't even vent gas when the pressure is too weak to cycle the slide cos the double-action trigger needs enough gas to cock the slide or it won't shoot. Pistol owned: TM Beretta M9 Cost: £89 Reliability: 4/5 Retailer of pistol: Zero One Airsoft History: Bought 6 months ago. Not used very much as I'm not keen on plastic guns. Cost too great to justify customising so it got sold. Pistol owned: HFC Beretta M190 Cost: £88 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol: Airsoft Scotland. History: Bought about 4 months ago. Excellent gun. Wasn't too sure about it at first. The slide DIDN'T lock back for the first hundred shots or so and it DOES vent the dregs of the mag but the slide lock works perfctly though. Trades are awful for those who find that sort of thing important. Pistol owned: KSC Glock 18C Cost: £75 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol: Bought 2nd hand from friend. History: Bought a couple of weeks ago. Pistol is 2 years old. Metal slide and various upgraded bits. Looks rather beat-up but has so far worked flawlessly. Pistol owned: WA M9 Perfect Version Cost: £129 Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol: BB Toyz History: Bought a couple of weeks ago. Lovely gun to look at. Never get tired of playing with it. Far more bits than the equivalent TM gun. Slide heavy enough to make you think it IS metal. Have shot this quite a bit and haven't found any problems. Only thing that would dissuade me from skirmishing this pistol is that I don't want to scratch it up. I'd qualify the above by saying that I really don't care about accurate trades or stuff like casting seams. As long as the gun is solid, well-constructed and reliable I'll like it. The exception to this is the WA which IS great quality in every respect. [edit] Having said all that, I don't feel I can vote for or against any manufacturer since all the pistols I've had have been reliable in function. Maybe that says more about the users than the pistols themselves? Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Must be me then. I got a fair few jams with my glock 19. But that was due to cooldown i think. When the recoil started to get sluggish it would jam up. But it took ages to freeze up with me Link to post Share on other sites
joeking27 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 KWA G19 £65 A2 2/5 This one failed after its first skirmish, something around the hammer broke, got it replaced under warrenty, and sold it on. TM Mk23. ~£100 A2 Only problem I've had here is a leaky mag. But my one remaining mag takes green with out leaking it all out. Damn good, let down a little by mags. HFC M130 £100 A2 Full Metal Beretta. Sounds and feels very very cool. Takes TM M9 mags. Currently broken. It didn't survive being dropped twice at LFU, taking it into A2 next week to see if it can be fixed. KWA G26c £55 Second Hand Full Auto Glock. ROF in insane. I haven't had this too long to comment on reliability. In summary: The most irritating gun for me is the beretta, as its pretty dead at the moment. The best for me is probably the Mk23, it scares people. And my next pistol will either be a WA M9, or Raging Bull. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistol owned: HFC Air Spider VII / Glock 26 with compensator Cost: £55 two-three years ago Reliability: 5/5 Retailer of pistol:Surplus and Adventure History: Bought new and has been used and abused ever since. Has been dropped on to concrete floors and had the outer barrel damaged. Still works flawlessly and is the most accurate pistol I have owned to date. Issues arising: None. Pistol owned: KWA Glock 18. Cost: £90 with spare mag two years ago. Reliability: 4/5 Retailer of pistol:Wolf Armouries History: Bought new and used as backup weapon until purchased TacMaster. Sold on to new owner last year, still going strong. Was generally used on full auto. Issues arising: None. Pistol owned: WA Beretta 92F Elite CQB Cost: £130 two years ago Reliability: 1/5 Retailer of pistol:Airsoft Armoury History: Bought new and never worked properly. Subsequently returned in exchange for TacMaster and magazines. Issues arising: Magazine did not hold enough gas to empty all bbs, and frequently suffered venting problems. Despite returning the magazine to AA, this was never solved, and I was told the magazine was fine as far as they could tell. Pistol owned: TM Tactical Master Cost: £95 two years ago Reliability: 4/5 Retailer of pistol: Airsoft Armoury History: Bought new. Has served as my primary backup weapon ever since. Superb bit of kit. Issues arising: Occasional gas venting in cold weather. Pistol owned: TM Beretta M9 Cost: £40 second hand in January this year. Reliability: 4/5 Retailer of pistol: Unknown History: Bought second hand, not skirmished yet but has been extensively test fired. Issues arising: Occasional gas venting in cold weather. I voted TM, but only because the option for HFC was not there. ~ Edited for spelling Link to post Share on other sites
McMadkat Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Must be me then. I got a fair few jams with my glock 19. But that was due to cooldown i think. When the recoil started to get sluggish it would jam up. But it took ages to freeze up with me <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IIRC you used 134a gas most of the time, Green gas is much better for cycling the slide and stopping it jamming up. It also gets less cool down due the lower expansion coefficient. McM Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 It IS me then lol! By a few i mean mayve 4 jams in a 1000 rounds. Best gun ever Link to post Share on other sites
Zip3400 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Are we supposed to list every gun owned? I figure it will be easier to just give a bit from each manufacturer. Pistol Owned KWA Glock 19 Cost $115 brand new Reliability 4/5 Retailer of Pistol I believe www.airsplat.com History The gun worked great, only problems were occasional double feeds, jams, and gas venting. After about 5,000 rounds the slide locked up, and the outer barrel broke where it meets the chamber. I've yet to figure out if the barrel broke because the slide jammed, or during me unjamming it. After this problem was fixed something broke in the frame, the valve striker would not reset. Pistol Owned KJW M9 Plastic Version Cost $80 brand new Reliability 2/5 Retailer of Pistol Local surplus store History After getting home and gassing up the gun I began to have problems with it. Recoil was very weak, range and power were terrible, and the gun would only be able to fire 7-8 shots before the gas in the magazine would be gone. Constant double feeding and jamming. After awhile the slide began to get hooked on the hammer. After fixing this problem the outer barrel began to crack. Further down the line the slide cracked towards the back of the slide. After about 5,000 rounds the gun was pretty much useless, I probably still have the various parts around my house somewhere. Pistol Owned KJW Glock 23 Plastic Version Cost $80 brand new Reliability 3.5/5 Retailer of Pistol Local surplus store History After gassing the gun up I was pleasantly suprise it wactually worked properly. Power, recoil, and range were a bit sub-par, but nothing too bad. The slide never had any trouble cycling, I encountered few if any jams or double feeds. After 500 rounds or so the lower section of the outer barrel broke. This was repaired, but after another 500 rounds or so the slide cracked in 3 places. Pistol Owned KJW Glock 27 Plastic Version Cost $80 brand new Reliability 2/5 Retailer of Pistol Local surplus store History Pretty much exact same story as the GLock 23. Pistol Owned Western Arms 5" LTD Cost Around $200 new Reliability 5/5 Retailer of Pistol Uncompany History This was my first WA pistol, I really didn't know what to expect. I had owned a decent number of GBBs before this, but was still amazed at the recoil and power the Infinity had. Not once did the gun double feed, jam, vent gas (only on the last two shots or so, this is normal with all GBBs) I put at least 4,000 rounds through the gun without a single problem. I sold the gun after seeing something else I wanted. Pistol Owned KSC Glock 19 Cost $99 brand new Reliability 4.5/5 Retailer of Pistol Uncompany History Back when UNco had their $99/shipped deal for the KSC G19s I bought quite a few for sale on eBay, but I kept one for myself. I had put at least 4,000 rounds through the gun with only the occasional double feed or jam. I sold the gun and moved on to something else. Pistol Owned KSC M9 HW Cost $100 Brand New Reliability 5/5 Retailer of Pistol Uncompany History This was my second KSC M9 HW. I added a Hogue wraparound grip, as well as the "stainless" outer barrel found on the Elites. None of these affect performance or durablilty. The gun never exhibited any problems with jaming, gas venting, or severe cooldown. Not once did I pick the pistol up to fire and have it flake out on my. Also sold as I moved onto something else. Pistol Owned Maruzen Micro Uzi Cost $88 Brand new Reliability 5/5 Retailer of Pistol eBay seller History Purchased despite all the bad things I had heard because of a deal I couldn't pass up on eBay. I never had any problem with the gun, it would shoot whenever I needed it to. I only put around 2,000 rounds through it with Green before selling it. Pistol Owned Western Arms 6" LTD Cost $150 used Reliability 5/5 Retailer of Pistol Forum Member History The gun was purchased used, I believe it had two other owners, neither of which put much use through it, as far as I could tell. I didn't have one problem with the gun whatsoever. I put at the very least 2,500 rounds through the gun with Green. Pistol Owned Western Arms 5" Prokiller Cost $150 Reliability 4/5 Retailer of Pistol Forum Member History The gun only had one problem the entire time I had it. After filling a very cold magazine and bringing it back up to room temperature the pressure in the magazine was so great the hammer could not depress the valve. I stupidly attempted to release a bit of pressure by lightly pressing the release valve, and accidently released all the gas in the magazine rather violently. After this I had problems with the valve, which was due to the O-ring in the valve becoming unseated. After this problem was fixed the gun was 100% relible. Link to post Share on other sites
Vektor Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Pistol owned: Total of 20 GBB pistols from eight different manufacturers during the years I´ve been in this hobby. And counting. Cost: From reasonable to insane, these pieces were awfully pricy in my country still a few years ago (before people got to know HK retailers). Reliability: Sorry, don´t really understand this. Reliability depends too much on perspective. Also considering that there are huge differences between same model series of one manufacturer, I feel it totally impossible to measure "reliability" with any scale. Retailer: Second hand pieces, HK online orders, local retailers. History: Or more like a background review. Even though I´m more of a collector, I tend to test my guns in the field as much as possible. In occasion I´ve been known to buy guns for decorative purposes only, but none of those have been GBBs yet. Because of our cold & dry climate, I use mostly Green Gas, unless the gun is totally allergic to that propellant. And I favor GBB pistol(s) as primary weapon, I don´t just lug it with me in a thigh holster. All of the guns have been stock models, without upgrades. Issues arising: I will list here only the ones which I´ve had some level of problems with. Both of my KSC Glock 17s (brand new plus a mildly used one) had several magazine jams and their triggers were awfully gritty. KSC Beretta M9 had its trigger spring broken after about 5000 rounds (with Green Gas). This problem is very common with every airsoft Beretta out there, regardless of the manufacturer/cloner. On a very hot skirmish day my WA Para-Ordnance Combat Carry, with Green Gas, created a small bulge on slide lock notch. The slide locked back after last shot anyway and the bulge didn´t get any bigger. Initially, same gun required one skirmish day of "breaking-in" period before magazines started to feed Excel 0,2s properly. After that no problems. Maruzen H&K MP5K died just after two games, the infamous loading nozzle broke in two (long story short). Due to the old age, both of my late Tanaka SIG Sauer P220s had some internal wear. The other one had loading nozzle ridge inside the slide broken. Also all of the Tanaka mags I owned had some leak problems, which were easily fixable. The MGC "AMI" Hardballer was a DOA, the previous owner had put it through relentless skirmishing with Green Gas for years, so it was all really natural wear & tear. KJW P8 vented gas like there was no tomorrow and its safety didn´t work. I could fire the gun even by applying the decocking lever. Special note: Out of this whole bunch of GBBs I´ve had, the aforementioned WA Para-Ordnance has made the biggest impression on me. After the break-in, the gun never malfunctioned on me. Even after my dive to a sand pile in the field the gun worked like a charm. And once I had to go through five consecutive games without lubing the gun at all (our hardware store had silicone oil out of stock), not a single jam during that time. If I didn´t hate double stacker 1911s, I´d still own that gun and probably done some upgrading. As you see, at least for me it´s really not about raw, utmost mechanical reliability. I didn´t vote for any option in the poll. Frankly, because I´m getting rather fed up with this near-religious wave of "There can be Only One Ultimate Truth!" attitudes. I´m quite disappointed to see that even some experienced and respected forum veterans have adopted such a narrow-minded mentality towards this sport. Personally I´m glad that we have such a great variety in airsoft market today (of course, we never have too much of different interesting models replicated): if you´re on a budget and you don´t absolutely care about aesthetics, you can get a cheap, yet very functional airsoft marker for your skirmishing/backdoor plinking needs. If you value aesthetics and you´re willing to pay for that little extra appearance, you can do that too. Long and pointless post? Yes. The initial question was already so leading, that I didn´t want to let the readers off easy. Edited couple of typos. Link to post Share on other sites
Catchv22 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I don't think this doesn't settles anything... I for one, enjoy several TM, KJW, Tanaka and KSC/KWA Pistols. However, I don't really feel any are absolutely the best out of the box. What I find is that your consistent aggression against WA products is unwarranted. They are no worse than any other pistols I've used. However, what constitutes as 'the best' is hazy in my mind. Personally, I enjoyed my Tanaka Luger the most, but none of the pistols I've owned (bar the Glock18C) has ever screwed up on me. A poll asking if Western Arms pistols are reliable would be a better poll. Link to post Share on other sites
dirty mao Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 pistols owned: KWC P226, KWC 1911, KWA M9, KWA glock 18C x2, KWA glock 17, KSC Mk. 23, KJW P14, KJW USP tacitcal X2 i really feel the need to compare most of these, so i will. KWA M9: Cost: $135 new, local army and navy story first real GBB, used and abused. still my most reliable gun. had issues when using bad silicone which caused the slide to stick, but now it's A OK. shoots hard and fast. ISSUES: weak recoil due to plastic slide, right side decocker keeps coming off because the hex screws come undone KWA Glocks bought one used from a friend for $90, traded Mk. 23 for another, traded G18 for G17 never failed me in its entire life of service. strong recoil and noise, fun to shoot ISSUES: on one of the G18 the slide would jam sometimes, and the hopup reset itself alot KSC Mk. 23 Cost: $160 used was fairly disatisfied with this gun. weak and sluggish recoil, too bulky for practical use. accurate as hell, though ISSUES: bad recoil KJW USP cost: traded G17 for one, bought another for $50 pretty vanilla. nothing glarinly wrong or right with them. ISSUES: none, but i never used them much KJW P14 cost: $140 from JT with case, etc. this one is the only real problem gun i've had since the KWCs ISSUES: in stock form, it would spit gas all over the place when firing. replaced chamber and plunger springs, but now it only works about 70% of the time. the other 30% sees bbs being shot about three feet. upside: shoots hard, when it works. real recoil, sexy sound pistol voted: KWA M9 most reliable gun i've ever had. keepin' her til the end of my days. Link to post Share on other sites
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