Knife kills?

[Janno]

To second what Minimiman has said above: Enforcing proper health and safety can be a nightmare for a site organiser, and the majority of sites out there have to work hard to cover themselves - particularly if they are running games with children present, with player numbers far greater than what we're used to down in London. We average around 30-40 players, with aprox. 1 member of staff to every 7 players - not counting bar-staff. But i've seen sites run smoothly with around 100 players, and about 3 members of staff!!

 

Electro is very lucky in that running as a heavily marshalled over-18s site allows us to implement the tag rule, knife kills, and even contact games (under special circumstances). The layout of the site allows us to regulate proceedings tightly, and in the event that any over-15s are signed in, they - along with the parent/legal guardian who signed them in - are extensively briefed on what to expect, and that they will be treated the same as everyone else (except that full-face protection is mandatory for them).

 

You'll notice i spend a great deal of the safety brief talking about close-range shots, tag kills, and rubber weapons, and that i inspect weapons before play. Site organisers cannot afford to take risks, and a single oversight could result in the operation being closed down. We should all respect the fact that just because semi-contact parameters work at one site, does not mean they are so easily implemented at another.

[FoxyGrandpa]

I like the knife rules at the werkz, i thinks its well regulated and everyone knows the rules before games begin.

 

I remember on my 3rd time there managing to sneak up on Ed, tag him on the arm, but at the same moment he span around with a rubber knife and caught me in the throat. It hurt a little, but all i could think of was 'I totally hit him first!' before we both chuckled and both took hits. It makes for intense shadow tactics and really adds a lot to the game. I have never once feared for my safety because i know people are responsible and the site is well marshalled.

 

It is my opinion that not allowing knife kills would affect my play experience in a negative way.

 

 

[minimiman]

I like the knife rules at the werkz, i thinks its well regulated and everyone knows the rules before games begin.

 

I remember on my 3rd time there managing to sneak up on Ed, tag him on the arm, but at the same moment he span around with a rubber knife and caught me in the throat. It hurt a little, but all i could think of was 'I totally hit him first!' before we both chuckled and both took hits. It makes for intense shadow tactics and really adds a lot to the game. I have never once feared for my safety because i know people are responsible and the site is well marshalled.

 

It is my opinion that not allowing knife kills would affect my play experience in a negative way.

And your post is exactly the reason we don't allow rubber knives but do allow knife kills with a tap on the shoulder. we get the same experience without somebody being put at risk, the throat is a delicate part of the body, you don't need to hit anybody in the throat as part of a game.

[Dope on a Rope]

 

As Minimiman says, a tap on the shoulder is sufficient and requires just as much skill / stealth as getting close enough to use a rubber knife.

 

Use of actual knifes I'm against as I've said previously:

 

"1. He spent the game being very aggresive - shouting swearing at other players, was told by the marshals to 'tone it down or leave' later on he was talking about a knife kill he made by walking up behind someone grabbing them around the throat with his knife and putting his pistol at the base of his opponents spine. If somebody did that to me in a game they would get a SA80 in the face repeatedly till they dropped the knife, maybe harsh but what this guy was describing was at least battery and bordering on assault.

 

2. Young lad very hyped up nearly hit someone with his AEG when he run out of ammo. During lunch he was playing with a knife I got chatting and he explained that it was wht he used for knife kills - this knife was hard plastic with a arrow type head and hard shaft, it had a reasonable point on it, I managed to stick through the sidewall of an old tyre on site. He was a little shocked as he thought it couldn't do any harm."

 

Likewise:

 

"We were asked to run a milsim game for the regulars and the howls that went up when we banned knives, there was also a bloody great pile of knives including some prop knives that could cause real injury."

 

And:

 

"We had a gent and his two sons (15 & 16 IIRC), all interested in airsoft they had hired guns and son enough the younger son had been victim of a knife kill, he was left a little shaken and we haven't seen him since. In the game briefing Knife kills were not mentioned in any way, shape or form."

 

Stealth / Knife kills yes, using prop knifes, no need IMO.

 

 

 

 

As someone who works in the safety industry I'd say that some sites who do not check knifes or give a clear enough briefing are running serious risk of prosecution from a. the HSE and b. the police if there where an accident

[Senor Bear]

To be honest I think taking any sort of knife out for a "kill" is just as bad as not taking your hits. Of course it is down to the site, but at AW Eversley, the marshals were told by an "off duty" health and safety inspector that people should not be taking knives out of their holsters on site, after seeing "a couple of lads having a play knife fight in the car park".

[John Dee]

Mine you it’s not just knives that can be used.

The last game I went to someone used a rubber chicken, and this has lead me to think of trying this at the next game >>>LINK<<<

[askeytheman]

I play with one knife in a sheath ala CQB torso from halo, and another in a boot sheath.. Knife kills FTW!

[HeartBreaker1317]

At my group's games we have knives, which are made out of the foam from those pool noodles. They have the proper shape and are either silver or black ((Depending on the availability of Duct v. Gaffer tape at the time)) and no one has ever been seriously hurt with one. Of course, they seem to have a half-life of about a week, but one noodle is enough to make bunches of the things, so that's no problem.

 

Problem is when a good friend of mine gets it in his head to try a super-ninja drop out of the trees onto the oppo's commander when he had his entire command of 29 others about him. I'm still amazed that he got away unscathed.

[darkchild130]

Got the first knife kill with my Extrema ratio Training blade at "the rock" on Sunday. Jumped off a rock above some camping guy with a G3, landed inches away from him with knife drawn, showed it to him and grinned. He got up and walked back to his spawn point.

 

Knife kills=win

 

Darkchild

[DestroJones]

Not for me. I have a knife phobia so I'd likely kick someone in the balls if they were running at me with a rubber knife.

[Destroyer 105]

i think knife kills should be allowed but you should be able to "kill" people with your weapon,even without ammo, like a melee attack, by just tapping them.

[askeytheman]

Even though airsoft is a game, how many people do you know will be killed by having a rifle hit them ala Halo? Yeah its swung by a trained soldier, but the person being hit is a trained soldier too!

 

Theres a reason knifes and bayonets are used, its 'cos knifes kill people. (Not rubber ones.. they only kill squirrels) I can never see how a single hit in computer games can kill somone.. :S

[Senor Bear]

Got the first knife kill with my Extrema ratio Training blade at "the rock" on Sunday. Jumped off a rock above some camping guy with a G3, landed inches away from him with knife drawn, showed it to him and grinned. He got up and walked back to his spawn point.

 

Knife kills=win

 

Darkchild

 

Would have been far safer just to say "bang". But I don't know if they have that option at The Rock.

[darkchild130]

Would have been far safer just to say "bang". But I don't know if they have that option at The Rock.

 

obviously, but thats not the point is it.

 

Darkchild

[CharlieQB]

Would have been far safer just to say "bang". But I don't know if they have that option at The Rock.

 

The man from H&S strikes again.....

[minimiman]

i think knife kills should be allowed but you should be able to "kill" people with your weapon,even without ammo, like a melee attack, by just tapping them.

Errrr....some people have spent too much time playing games in the virtual world and need a bit of reality.

 

I had to read your post several times to actually believe somebody is seriously suggesting site operators allow players to hit each other with their guns, as long as it's a 'tap' in their opinion.

 

How the hell would you control 'tapping' somebody with your weapon? Get real, airsoft is a game, not somewhere to encourage players hitting each other with heavy metal objects.

 

I am fairly confident your opinion would change the first time somebody tapped you in the face with the butt of their gun.

[Captain Hat]

Yah, I have to say- advocate as I am of knife kills, the controlled use of rubber knives in skirmishing and so on, the thought of skirmishers thwacking each other with AEGs (which tend to both be a lot more solid and carry a lot more momentum than rubber knives) does sound more than a little dumb.

[ECRRRainman]

perhaps he meant tapping the opponent with your hands?

[-Angel-]

If you feel the need to similute cutting someone, you shouldn't be on the field. The 'bang' rule works, there is no need to go the extra step and make it physical. Anything remotely knife shaped wielded/thrown at me would not recieve a friendly response.

[ECRRRainman]

The bang rule has plenty of problems in itself, but I understand the distrust of a complete stranger being handed the opportunity to "knife" you potentially, hence why I only feel comfortable using such a rule at private games

[Stealthbomber]

Not for me. I have a knife phobia so I'd likely kick someone in the balls if they were running at me with a rubber knife.

I'd hope you'd just shoot them with your toy gun instead.

 

I WISH people would stop confusing terms such as "knife kill", "bang kill" and "surrender kill".

 

A bang-kill is used as a substitute for actually shooting another person. Perhaps you've crawled around the side of a log and are confronted with a person lying prone and the only target is their face, close up. In that situation, saying "bang" is a smart thing to do.

 

Beyond that, knife kills and surrender kills are almost interchangeable.

It's not a case of charging toward someone while waving a rubber knife around. If you do that, I'm gonna shoot you.

99% of "knife kills" are simply people hiding behind doors (or similar), waiting for somebody to walk through and then tapping them on the shoulder and making a slit-throat gesture.

The same thing applies to surrender kills.

Mostly they're situations where you catch somebody unawares and offer them the chance to walk without taking a BB up close.

Obviously there will be situations where, for example, somebody's defending a room and you can offer them a surrender rather than letting them get laced by 10 AEGs. That's a slightly different situation.

 

TBH, I don't mind if I'm physically allowed to use a rubber knife or not. I get the same buzz from being sneaky if I get the kill by tapping somebody on the shoulder with a finger.

 

I think anything to do with guns, bayonets or thrown knives is a step over the line though.

Basically, any kill you could get with a bayonet or a "melee attack" () could also be achieved with a knife-kill (hand on the other guys shoulder etc).

Thrown knives seems a bit uncontrollable to me and I'd also be concerned that the knife might end up lying on the floor where somebody could slip on it.

[triggerhappyNL]

trowing knifes is a bad thing, it has WAY more energy that a BB so a hit to the safty glasses might knock them of, bad ofc !

 

but knifing someone by touching them... never had anyone rant about it, never thought about it to. i've hit by knifes hard, yeah. i've been hit up close with bb's, yeah. 350 fps at 2 meters is serious busines. but ey, go play chess if you ain't up for it.

[askeytheman]

Just been playing an awesome CQB game.. In my house. Three guys, two knifes and a 15 round springer. Lights off, and the guy with the pistol had a torch.. Truely sweet! Got a superb stab in the armpit after mate with pistol forgot to cover his blindside. (killer of pistol carrier gets the pistol.. keeps going till no more bb's in the gun)

 

Love it! Pretty hard to find the bb's afterwards, James is still looking now!

[scorch]

Just for comedy effect I think I'll take a toy "laser screwdriver" to the next game for "knife kills"!!

 

(Yes I live in a household of Doctor Who fans/geeks)

[bluntshooter]

 

that be me with thompson and ferox with m4