uscmCorps Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 cheaper in Air-Borne Shinjuku, they go for Y7980/mag. You know... you could make a nice profit selling these for $88 per mag to the rest of the world. Think about it... 7980 JPY equates to 74.13 USD. Let's say you sold them for $88.13 each. That'd be a profit of $14 per mag. Now no one buys just one spare mag. I'd imagine most people would buy between 6 and 10 spare mags yielding $84 profit selling 6 mags or $140 profit selling 10 mags. That's pretty damn good. Plus... most of the online retailers aren't even listing these as being available yet so there's tons of people dying to buy them and at $84 per mag, they'd be saving $20 to $21 per mag vs. buying from a HK retailer!!! With those numbers... buyers would save a lot of money and be happy, and those selling them in Japan would make an awesome profit. Even if someone in Japan only did this twice for two people wanting 10 mags... that'd be $280 in profit for essentially traveling across town, buying mags, putting them in a box and sending them off to another country. I'm just saying is all... IMHO it's at least worth considering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnakChan Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 The thought crossed my mind. I flew back to Tokyo last week (that's home for me, I'm in HK for a project for xx months), and was so tempted with this whole kit. The CQB Y48,720, and Carbine is Y52,920 and mags @ under Y8000 but was too lazy to research on how to bring the stuff back to HK . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) The thought crossed my mind. I flew back to Tokyo last week (that's home for me, I'm in HK for a project for xx months), and was so tempted with this whole kit. The CQB Y48,720, and Carbine is Y52,920 and mags @ under Y8000 but was too lazy to research on how to bring the stuff back to HK . The whole setup is totally do-able. And chances are (given how greedy many of the HK online retailers are) that prices won't change that dramatically within the next few months. So when you get back you could totally do it at that point (unless of course someone else got wise to the scheme and did it first). It's all about taking the initiative! As for getting the gun to HK, I'd just mail it to yourself. Simple as that. But after postage, it may not be much of a savings. uscmCorps you money hungry jew LOL... If someone were to do this, it wouldn't do me any good. It's not like I live in Japan and furthermore I've already paid for all my spare mags (at $88 each). I'm thinking about all the other guys out there wanting mags but cringing at the notion of paying over $100 for each one. It's more about my hatred of how HK retailers mark up items like crazy. In general, online prices vs. street prices at the same store can often be inflated anywhere between 10% to 30%! Now THAT'S money hungry. Besides... which would you rather pay $88 or $105 for one mag? Better yet... 10 mags at $880 or $1050, for the EXACT same product? Sure, I'd rather pay $741.30 for 10 mags at no profit to the middle man, but $880 is still hands down better than $1050. Edited June 19, 2008 by uscmCorps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) BaBaBooey, yes you can find them cheaper in Air-Borne Shinjuku, they go for Y7980/mag. If you read Japanese it's http://www.airborne-shop.com/ Edit: PM me if you wanna navigate 確かに安い。。。でも送料入れたあと、9000円ぐらいかな？ I thought about selling them as well...but I'm sure someone will get upset as soon as one little thing goes wrong. Edited June 19, 2008 by BaBaBooey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I thought about selling them as well...but I'm sure someone will get upset as soon as one little thing goes wrong. Hmmm... good point... I still think it's a risk most buyers would put up with though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnakChan Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 確かに安い。。。でも送料入れたあと、9000円ぐらいかな？ They better not charge Y1000/mag for takyuubin! I guess I'm lucky that I live in Meguro so I can drive to Shinjuku in 20 mins. So I never considered delivery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 You think 10-30 % markups are crazy? 10% barely pays for the rent and other expenses of having a warehouse, so that is the minimum of breaking even with the expenses - if you do it as charity and have no hired staff. You say you got your magazines for a wholesale price of 88 USD each, correct? If HK shops were to sell the magazines below 100 USD, they would push their wholesale customers into the ground. If you had a shop, would you like to have your supplier compete with your prices? It's a competition you could never win. -Sale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 You think 10-30 % markups are crazy? 10% barely pays for the rent and other expenses of having a warehouse, so that is the minimum of breaking even with the expenses - if you do it as charity and have no hired staff. You say you got your magazines for a wholesale price of 88 USD each, correct? If HK shops were to sell the magazines below 100 USD, they would push their wholesale customers into the ground. If you had a shop, would you like to have your supplier compete with your prices? It's a competition you could never win. -Sale Then why aren't they charging that markup to the locals? Inventory is inventory regardless of who buys it. Why should online sales garner a higher price when the exact same product is sold at a cheaper price, coming out of the exact same warehouse? I can understand high rent costs (I mean I did grow up there afterall and my family still lives there so it's not like I'm unaware of it), and that those high rent costs can drive up the cost of resale products. But the fact that that cost isn't passed onto the local customer tells me the idea that "the high cost of rent is why online products alone cost more" is a weak argument. I've been buying and playing airsoft for over 18 years now. I remember when the airsoft stores first started selling products online. They didn't have HUGE warehouses back then that cost HUGE amounts in rent. They were selling out of their regular inventory. And yet... hmmm... how interesting... there was a standard 30% (on average) markup even back then. Sorry dude, I respect you a lot, but I ain't buyin' your arguement there. While I'm not saying that HK shops MUST sell at $88, I do know that the markup is exceptionally high as they're capitalizing on the popularity of this product as I heard this direct from several HK suppliers. They simply know that people WILL pay it as there's no alternative. My suggestion for someone who lives in Japan to take advantage of the situation would ultimately have little to no impact on the HK airsoft retailer market as I highly doubt one or two people in Japan making the occasional bulk order for resale will even be a blip on the HK radar. But who knows? Maybe such a small feat will send the entire HK markup monopoly come crashing down! Yeah right. I wish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 i highly doubt that $88 is what the retailer pays for those mags. i guess that markup for retail is anywhere from 70 to 100%. don't know if its applicable to airsoft, but having worked in bike sales for a number of years, items were marked up on the average of 100%. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) Well BaBaBooey....If you ever did want to do it...I'd happily buy 4 mags from you. Hell I'm pretty sure not much more could go wrong with mags I buy from you apposed to whats gone wrong with the mags I've bought from BoomArms. And my mags were 83 bucks shipped from BoomArms Edited June 19, 2008 by poison123 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
coladraken Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 TMC WAM4 spare mag Thanks, forgot about them it seems. But I couldn't find enough info about their ordering process so I gave up for a few hours... and then Boomarms finally woke up and sent me their quote. Now the second stage of waiting begins... Also found out that RA-TECH have my new chamber in the mail already... happy happy joy joy! Thinking about something different... I wonder if there'll be a M16 length front for it someday. Heh.. possible PDI inner barrel with M16 length.. power, no? Was thinking about making it into a us army DMR, but that would be next year earliest anyway, but it will be interesting to see what kind of upgrades that will come for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ratech Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 some info forums form TAIWAN http://www.wam4.com.tw/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IronWolf Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Some very good information on that forum, thanks for sharing RATECH, this snippet is particularly interesting: Hi there! Welcome to join this forum... Well.. you won't get any extra mags from anywhere except the WA shop in Japan, because you are not the one who ask this question, I suggest you can just booking from the owner of this forum (TAF-阿豪), he might get some mag in end of May. I'm not sure. It may cost you about NTD 3,000 for one mag, I heard a taiwan company are planning to produce their own WA M4 mag, it will be lots cheaper than original WA M4 mag Anyway hope you can get the mag you need and come play with us Ciao sauce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Some very good information on that forum, thanks for sharing RATECH, this snippet is particularly interesting: sauce That would be awesome if another company makes cheaper mags. Quality can't be any worse than the oem mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) Then why aren't they charging that markup to the locals? Because the locals aren't the customers of these companies' wholesale customers. For example, "Hong Kong Airsoft Shop X" sells to "US Airsoft Retailer Z" on a wholesale basis. The US retailer gets the mags for 88 USD based on your figure, plus cargo. The US retailer wants to pay the rent and maybe eat something, so they have to add something on top of the price they are paying. Even if HKASX is charging 106 USD, they offer a better price than USARZ can. If HKASX were to have the same price list for their wholesale customers and overseas individual customers, they would really put USARZ, their important customer, in a very hard position. Local US and European retailers can provide services and walk-in shops and other conveniences that HK shops can't, but they can not win a price war against the very same shops that sell the stuff to them in the first place. I've thought it's a perfectly normal practice to have one price list for wholesale customers, and another price list for retail customers who buy online. I've learnt this at a quite young age, as the family of my best childhood friend run a business of their own. My parents? They are both artists. Selling locally with "street prices" is a favor for the locals, and doesn't hurt the wholesale customers 8000 km away. I don't see how that's a bad thing. And yet... hmmm... how interesting... there was a standard 30% (on average) markup even back then. In the beginning phase of any company (when they don't have the expense of a warehouse and staff, sales volume is lower. Yes, I'm an eel when it comes to explanations. I have a rough idea of markups in quite a few ranges of various products, and Airsoft markups are among the lowest I know. 30% may sound high for a layman, but it honestly is a markup of the lower side in general comparison. No need to take my word for it, just read what Chillindrdure said for example. While I'm not saying that HK shops MUST sell at $88, I do know that the markup is exceptionally high as they're capitalizing on the popularity of this product as I heard this direct from several HK suppliers. They simply know that people WILL pay it as there's no alternative. I would argue that if a markup of around 30% is applied all products regardless of popularity, then the retailers are not milking the consumers for this particular product. I was disappointed with the high price of the magazines as well, but because a standard markup appears to have been applied, we should blame WA first for making the cost price that high. My suggestion for someone who lives in Japan to take advantage of the situation would ultimately have little to no impact on the HK airsoft retailer market as I highly doubt one or two people in Japan making the occasional bulk order for resale will even be a blip on the HK radar. But who knows? Maybe such a small feat will send the entire HK markup monopoly come crashing down! Yeah right. I wish. I'm not a business-minded person and I don't really worry about this kind of things. I'm a consumer as much as you are, but in this case I would point the finger at WA for the end price of WA mags. Someone buying WA mags from Japan and selling them to foreign WA M4 owners is foremost doing a favor for the buyers, and makes a few bucks in between. Someone selling individual mags would have to set the price quite low to be competitive: From a retailer the mags can be part of a larger order, so shipping cost will be proportionally lower. I'm not throwing any rocks if someone buys WA mags for a lower price and sells them to people who need them - I buy high end camera lenses here, and sometimes pass them to friends of mine, or friends of friends. We are sometimes talking about a 100% higher price elsewhere in these cases, but I'm still not bothered to pursue it as a business with all the hassle of being a salesman. Cheers, Sale Edited June 19, 2008 by Sale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Sorry Sale, I 100% understand what you're saying... I'm just not buying it. As for a Taiwanese M4 mag... that'll be great news! I know a lot of my teammates have been holding off from this due to the mag price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Sorry Sale, I 100% understand what you're saying... I'm just not buying it. It is however, what they do. It's a known fact that the street prices in HK are lower than the website prices, by about 20-30%. Knowing some wholesalers myself, the HK street prices from some of the shops are also about 10-20% higher than the wholesale prices - but again, people need to eat, so I don't see an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I understand. Sale and I have decided to take the discussion to PMs so as not to spam this thread excessively. In the process of some lengthy (but always gentlemanly ) conversations we've come to the conclusion that we're essentially agreeing on all the same points just from slightly different angles. All is good! Back on topic, today I received my metal HopUp from RATech. Immediate impression is that it's good and appears strong enough. I checked the postage too (I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to whether or not a company is overcharging for S&H). They quoted me $17 for S&H. The actual S&H (calculated by converting the postage on the box) was $15. So I was very satisfied with how honest they were about the shipping costs. $2 IMHO, is a fair amount to cover handling charges. More importantly... the HopUp. Haven't installed it yet but I did take the time to inspect it. It's a two piece unit held together by one screw on one side. This meant that as I handled it, the two halves were able to twist apart in opposite directions. That's not necessarly bad... for all I know once it's in the gun it's 100% solid. Just thought I'd mention that. One thing I did notice was a slight indent along the inner edge of either the front or back opening (couldn't tell which end I was looking at). I wasn't sure if this was part of the design or not. I'll probably have to wait and see what the other people who ordered one say as I won't get to install this until my bulk order of parts arrive next week. So for the other buyers out there, please keep a look out for it and let me know if what I'm seeing is good or bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Firing: I smiled from ear to ear with the 1st trigger pull. You pull the charging handle to rack the BCG and release. 1st round is chambered. Trigger pull is crisp and response is instantaneous. There is a satisfying pop and blow back of the bolt. Then the click/clank of the bolt slamming into battery as a new round is chambered. There is noticeable recoil. you can feel the buffer move and compress under your check weld. The only thing missing would be the smell of burnt gunpowder. It is truly an unique experience if all you've shot are AEGs. Initial Dressing: I slapped on my LMT replica BUIS, Aimpoint CompM2, and SF M951. I'm still modifying my KAC QD flashhider so my KAC QD Suppressor will fit properly. Future Directions: -reinforced bolt stop -aluminum hop-up chamber -metal body -G&P RIS front set (full metal) -PDI 6.01 inner barrel -Airsoft Surgeon enhanced buffer -MORE mags This is gonna be one heck of a summer gun! With the above upgrades, i should be able to use green gas/propane somewhat reliably. Edited June 24, 2008 by chillindrdude Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaBaBooey Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Apologize if this is a re-post, but VFC is putting out a two piece hop-up chamber: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Apologize if this is a re-post, but VFC is putting out a two piece hop-up chamber: That just looks weird. (Please don't quote mahoosive pictures just to make a small reply please) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 There's still noone making reinforce bolt stop?!? Also this is off topic but how do I view all replies at same time instead of clicking one by one? (it was view all but now reverted x.x) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Idiot USPS finally delivered my RA-Tech hopup. I should have a brief write up on it later tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harvahammas Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Poison123 don't quote pictures from same page.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zentaurus Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Poison123 don't quote pictures from same page.. immediately preceding post, too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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