kullwarrior Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 wouldn't save them if they weren't based out of China Nowadays, even in China trademark/ cloning without patent right isnt even safe. International and Political pressure has change and PRC don't want to lose their spot light. Big operation still gets busted as for the microscopic could be safe as long as noone complains Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_AUGfather Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 What are you talking about? Because an armalite is "simple", you cant screw up? What does knowing anything about armalites have anything to do with making a typo? and what do you mean by 700 dollars? that clone rail is 59 dollars...its made in china Its just a tiny typo, its not like a letter was misplaced or a word was misspelled, it was just a darn space that wasnt put into the phrase  Simple? The simplicity of the weapon has nothing to do with my point. I was refering to the overwhelming popularity of Armalite replicas as airsoft platforms. That popularity is one of the reasons this gun has hit the ground running so fast. A technology like this wouldnt be as popular if it were in a FAMAS or an AUG that doesnt have such wide-appeal. Like I said, to me, that blemish takes away from the coolness of the gun (although still innovative). It's the details that seperate the high-dollar replicas from others. This is still an amazing weapon and innovative. That being said, one fluent English-speaking/reading person could have halted that mistake before the paint dried.. and why would they intentionally screw up a trademark? Just dont include it, or include an aftermarket KIT or stencil that allows the buyer to do it themselves with a can of white paint, bending any international trademark infringement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 just wondering what's the value lock for? Â In a Western Arms gun, once the hammer cracks open the valve, it is held open by something called a valve lock which is part of the magazine. When the slide (or in this case bolt) hits the disconnector, the valve lock dis-engages and the valve closes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 AUGfather, as it has been said, the typo is on an after market rail, not the one that comes on the gun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
0nslaught Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Simple? The simplicity of the weapon has nothing to do with my point. I was refering to the overwhelming popularity of Armalite replicas as airsoft platforms. That popularity is one of the reasons this gun has hit the ground running so fast. A technology like this wouldnt be as popular if it were in a FAMAS or an AUG that doesnt have such wide-appeal. Like I said, to me, that blemish takes away from the coolness of the gun (although still innovative). It's the details that seperate the high-dollar replicas from others. This is still an amazing weapon and innovative. That being said, one fluent English-speaking/reading person could have halted that mistake before the paint dried.. and why would they intentionally screw up a trademark? Just dont include it, or include an aftermarket KIT or stencil that allows the buyer to do it themselves with a can of white paint, bending any international trademark infringement. Â Are we even talking about the same thing? Im talking about the clone aftermarket rail he bought from a store, not the gun... Â blemish? what blemish? its a damn space thats missing in the phrase! Â details? when your that picky, you might as well just buy the real product. Â paint? those trademarks on the rail are laser engraved... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GBB Nut Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Trigger Guard might fit, but I would need to file the tabs on the lower reciever. AND use a screw to fit the trigger guard on one end. Screw + plastic tab that propably breaks => nono  The problem I encountered while installing my Magpul enhanced trigger guard was that the holes did not line up. I noticed this when I dry fit the trigger guard a few times. It did require a little force to get in place but otherwise fit without much fuss. After checking and rechecking I finally got up the courage to break out my trusty dremel tool. To solve this small dilemma I simply elongated the rear hole of the trigger guard so the holes would line up properly. I wasn't comfortable hammering the roll pin in so I just cut a metal pin with a smaller diameter and pressed it into place. As for the other end I ditched the idea of using the front screw after a few agonizing attempts at forcibly threading the plastic lower receiver. Instead I substituted it with the spring and detent from the safety selector of an HFC M9 GBB pistol. To my relief it worked out alright in the end. If anyone's interested I'll see if I can't post some pics later though I'm sure there's probably an easier and more elegant solution than mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 guys, Inokatsu has release more details about their GBBs http://img.redwolfairsoft.com/upload/blog/...lowback-m4.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 is that a bolt stop that i spy? woot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 is that a bolt stop that i spy? woot! you do realize 2Roy's metal pack is approx $800dollars....in my opinion get 1 and 50% cash into 3rd wa m4 isntead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stuey Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 In a Western Arms gun, once the hammer cracks open the valve, it is held open by something called a valve lock which is part of the magazine. When the slide (or in this case bolt) hits the disconnector, the valve lock dis-engages and the valve closes. Â But why do you need to buy extra valve locks? Surely new WA mags come with them already fitted? Or do they break easily or something? Â Stu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amateurstuntman Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 I think the idea is that the new valve locks are designed to be more efficient with the gas and are probably made to tighter tolerances than the stock WA part. Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) Pure uneducated speculation follows. Â The WA M4 is designed to run on HFC134a. Green gas has around 70% more pressure. How about a valve lock that allows the valve to close a little bit more than the original, or perhaps earlier? It would preserve gas, yet the blowback speed would be the same or better than with HFC134a. Muzzle velocity would be unaffected, because the initial hammer strike opens the valve fully. Â The "uneducated" part means that I don't know whether they did the valve locks like this. But that's how I would design them. Â -Sale Edited July 21, 2008 by Sale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 for those who have them...does the G&P valve locks look any different to the stock WA part? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 The stock part is just weak pot metal. Mine is slowly rounding off due to the bolt action. The G&P one is much stronger in structure. Now if it works better, that would be a plus....I'd rather buy a better bolt stop and bolt. You listening Clarence?! No three month wait this time OK?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Played with it Saturday at OP Blue Cloud. Â Gun + 10 mags + full rig + comms + spare gas + spare full bag of BBs + 102 oz of O2 = Very heavy! Yikes. Â Performance wise it really wasn't as great as I had expected it to be. I was shooting on semi mostly, and could barely get half a mag out before it seemed to run out of gas. Perhaps there's a slow inaudible leak in everyone of my mags. I don't know. I just know it was not terribly exciting. By the end of the first scenario, I switched back to my regular AEG M4 and was much more satisfied. It's kinda sad really. Â One thing that was very frustrating was that the day before the OP I was tuning in all my guns, and noticed that the Hop-Up on the WA seemed to have almost no affect on the BB. *sigh* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnakChan Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 To me that's a little worrying, 'cos in my opinion although the WA M4 CQB-R is a really "cool to have toy", it's still not very practicable as a skirmishable weapon. Again, to stress, just my personal opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 To me that's a little worrying, 'cos in my opinion although the WA M4 CQB-R is a really "cool to have toy", it's still not very practicable as a skirmishable weapon. Again, to stress, just my personal opinion. Â I'm going to implement all the modifications I have on hand. Try it out one more time. If that doesn't make it do a 180 turn in performance... on the wall it goes. It's sad that my Guarder AKS-74U with super short barrel out shoots everyone of my other guns. So far, I'm not finding enough reason to warrant the insanely large amounts of added weight with the WA setup. ... And I really WANT to like this as a skirmishable piece. But if I can't even get through one mag on semi auto... *sigh* it's just not worth it to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 so I guess this is more or so a wall hanger/ fun gun than a skirmish/ trainable one... Â So WA M4 is no go for planning skirmishing, guess its up to Inokatsu or else I think I will have to choose PTW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lee1hy Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 AEG stock tube is the configuration possible in WA M4? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chillindrdude Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 i would like to hear some more field experience when you have all the modifications done. however, the WA maybe be relegated to real steel weapons training use. i see the hopup is still finicky to non-existent...you are using the Ratech right? what weight BBs were you using? and how much level flight were you getting before drop off? Â did you make the teflon tape mods to the magazines? mine does empty the entire mag in one charge. but thats filling it up and then using the filled magazine right away. if there is a slow leak, i suppose after 20-30 mins there would not be enough gas to fire all 50 rds. Â i do have to say, i'm getting real use to the fast trigger response. when i shot my AEGs this weekend on semi, i was really noticing the lag in time from pressing the trigger to when the BB is fired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 i would like to hear some more field experience when you have all the modifications done. however, the WA maybe be relegated to real steel weapons training use. i see the hopup is still finicky to non-existent...you are using the Ratech right? what weight BBs were you using? and how much level flight were you getting before drop off? Â did you make the teflon tape mods to the magazines? mine does empty the entire mag in one charge. but thats filling it up and then using the filled magazine right away. if there is a slow leak, i suppose after 20-30 mins there would not be enough gas to fire all 50 rds. Â i do have to say, i'm getting real use to the fast trigger response. when i shot my AEGs this weekend on semi, i was really noticing the lag in time from pressing the trigger to when the BB is fired. The gun is still more or less stock except for external cosmetic upgrades (WA front set, MIAD). Got the RATECH hop up and PDI inner barrel... haven't had a chance to install them. Shooting with 0.23g Excel BioBBs. Drop off was about the same as my AEG M4s (i.e. disappointing). Didn't teflon the mags. Couldn't hear any leaks. Fired the mags about 1 hour after filling them up. Got about 23-27 rounds before I had to switch mags. Â The trigger response was sharp. Which I will always love... but the reliability sucked. Â Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janno Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Overview:- Just came back from 3 days of CQC training, and the WAM4 performed flawlessly. All of the training was conducted on semi-auto, using targets ranging from full-size, to smaller ones about the size of your fist (distance ranging from 10 feet to 30 feet away). I was using 0.3g ammo with green gas, and an EOtech for optics. The hop and internals were left completely untouched after getting the piece out of the box. 4x magazines were loaded with 30 rounds each.  Performance:- The WAM4 was consistently accurate at all stations - RI, CP, reaction range, and assault course. Using Magpuls on the bottom of the magazines allowed me to do kneeling speed-reloads without damaging them (the Magpul acts like a cushion when the mag landed on the concrete). Partially thanks to the high degree of accuracy, and short trigger-response times, my squad were able to achieve the fastest time on the assault course (though it was a very close-run thing).  As far as mag cool-down was concerned, we loaded a magazine with 50 rounds and tested it on full auto. The cooldown was atrocious, and we didn't make anywhere near 50 rounds before the gas ran out. Firing quick-repeated shots on semi-auto, we were able to make it to 40, but the velocity of the last 10-15 shots was extremely poor.   Summary:- In conclusion, i don't think that the WAM4 is viable as an airsoft skirmish piece. However, it excels at the training and realistic-scenario/live exercise side of things, and as a result of its performance at the CQC training, several candidates have now requested that i acquire one for them (as soon as more magazines arrive in the country). The tactical instructors, who had just purchased Systema mp5PTWs, were also extremely impressed with the WAM4's performance. To get the most out of it, i would recommend the following:  1. Don't use it outdoors in cold weather 2. Don't use it on full auto 3. Don't load it with with more than 30 rounds  This means that for mainstream skirmishers, the WAM4 is not a viable choice. That said, i had a great time using it, and come the next CQC course, i will be using it again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 The gun is still more or less stock except for external cosmetic upgrades (WA front set, MIAD). Got the RATECH hop up and PDI inner barrel... haven't had a chance to install them. Shooting with 0.23g Excel BioBBs. Drop off was about the same as my AEG M4s (i.e. disappointing). Didn't teflon the mags. Couldn't hear any leaks. Fired the mags about 1 hour after filling them up. Got about 23-27 rounds before I had to switch mags. The trigger response was sharp. Which I will always love... but the reliability sucked.   There's something wrong with your mags. I've left mine sit for days when they didn't leak and was able to get all 50 shots off with 1 - 2 sec pauses shooting on semi.  My feelings on the weapon is its *very* skirmishable if you put *alot* of love and attention into it. With the 368mm barrel and GG, you are looking at a great DMR as this matched my laylax vsr shooting at 470fps out to 200 - 250 feet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 There's something wrong with your mags. I've left mine sit for days when they didn't leak and was able to get all 50 shots off with 1 - 2 sec pauses shooting on semi. My feelings on the weapon is its *very* skirmishable if you put *alot* of love and attention into it. With the 368mm barrel and GG, you are looking at a great DMR as this matched my laylax vsr shooting at 470fps out to 200 - 250 feet. A few of my mags still are loaded from Saturday. So when I get home tonight I'm going test those out to see how they're performing. I'm not sure how much of a factor the weather is. Saturday was pretty hot (over 105 degrees I think... bad enough I made sure to keep the gas canisters outside of the car). Don't know if that affected them.  I had really wanted to use it this weekend at Camp Pendleton (playing at their MOUT facility). If I do the PDI CQBR inner barrel, RATech HopUp, and AS buffer fixes... and don't see a dramatic improvement... I'll have to go with the trusty AEGs. A big limitation is that I have to make sure none of my guns shoot over 376 fps with 0.25g BBs in order to use them at all the major OPs out here. So I have to be *very* careful about how much I gain in fps from these modifications.  Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 A few of my mags still are loaded from Saturday. So when I get home tonight I'm going test those out to see how they're performing. I'm not sure how much of a factor the weather is. Saturday was pretty hot (over 105 degrees I think... bad enough I made sure to keep the gas canisters outside of the car). Don't know if that affected them. I had really wanted to use it this weekend at Camp Pendleton (playing at their MOUT facility). If I do the PDI CQBR inner barrel, RATech HopUp, and AS buffer fixes... and don't see a dramatic improvement... I'll have to go with the trusty AEGs. A big limitation is that I have to make sure none of my guns shoot over 376 fps with 0.25g BBs in order to use them at all the major OPs out here. So I have to be *very* careful about how much I gain in fps from these modifications.   If you use Duster with the 368mm your good to go. Should shoot around 360 with .20s, and one thing I've noticed is the mags hold up alot better to duster vs gg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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