kodiak22 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 even my grandma can make stuff faster than the magpul airsoft division seriously is magpul airsoft division a one man team? all they really are doing are taking their RS products, modifiying them to fit airsoft stuff and using cheaper quality materials to produce them so RS owners dont feel ripped off and it can take like 5 months to produce? oh and the guy whos argueing for magpul...he sounds like hes working for them no offense im just paranoid BACK ON TOPIC! OH EM GEE!!!! I have been waiting for this for ages, wonder how good it would look on a 416 do you think it can hold a lipo? looks like it could ill be the guy your talking about, no offense taken. no i dont work for either magpul( but would be cool to work for Magpul USA ) seeing as how im only 15 i dont think ill be working for either anytime soon. im not trying to start and arguement again, but magpul USA doesnt come out with items any faster, they take a long time to. please dont take this offensively( and im not trying to sound like a #####)but for people saying they are taking to long there are 2 options, wait for the Magpul PTS version of whatever you want, or just spend you money on a different type of whatever you want. and maybe they arent getting thinks out as fast as people want is because they are workign on a bunch of thinks at once and not just one?( doubtful, but possible) ok im done argueing about this lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Castle Bravo Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 seriously is magpul airsoft division a one man team? It might be. I met him at the SHOT Show, but I don't recall his full name - Simon? Something... I may be thinking of the Madbull guy. Anyhow, I suspect that PTS and airsoft in general is very back burner with the tremendous run on PMAGs right now. Link to post Share on other sites
Kirby1986 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 oh and the guy whos argueing for magpul...he sounds like hes working for them no offense im just paranoid Me? I wish. I would have the coolest toys on the block. I just happen to be in the loop. As for the Magpul MBK, the finish isnt like the G&P one, so I would doubt it was farmed out to G&P. Material isnt the same as Guarder, but does not install like a Hurricane. So I do not know what make they are. I do know they are described as "Magpul PTS," but thats still inconclusive at best. Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 magpul USA doesnt come out with items any faster, they take a long time to. Your still missing the point. Magpul USA has to do R&D on products, and they also make many things that never hit the market. Magpul PTS takes the products that exist and adapt them for airsoft. I could design a CAD program that would take a 3D model of the product (needed for most prototyping) and simply adjust the internal dimensions and various other things in order to fit an airsoft system. This could probably be done in a few seconds by the program, or maybe a week of work manually if I had all the dimensions I needed (including rudimentary fit tests, and I'm no good with 3D CAD). Then I take it to a rapid prototyping machine and I have molds in about an hour. Materials are usually selected based on cost/benifit and that takes about a day (maybe more maybe less) of board room negotiating with engineers, accountants, ect, ect. Magpul has to actually design the product. You cant just take some plastic, mold it by hand, and *poof* on your first try you have the product. They go through many versions, stress tests, length use tests, actual combat tests, none of which the airsoft stuff will go through (except the stress test, probably). So basically Magpul PTS is just focusing on litigation and licensing. Leave that to Magpul USA, they are a big cooperate entity with lawyers and the whole shebang. That is not to say licensing is bad, but you need to get them out there faster to return profit or you need to start making things yourself, otherwise copycats rise to steal some of the profit for themselves(although in the US copycats are a little more careful about our laws). IF Magpul PTS actually made the whole slew of items their RS parents make there would probably be NO clones...there problem solved. This stock looks great, I hope someone like RSOV will sell it, or PTS will get on the ball. Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 .... you really think MAgpul PTS does no R&D? ok then you just keep thinking that. they would have to do R&D on atleast some of their product, Pmags, they arent anywhere close to the real ones( in dimensions, internals, materials, etc), so you can say the dont do R&D but i for one cant believe they wouldnt do any R&D on their products. as i said others have their theories, and opinions, and i have mine and no matter what i said im not going to change any minds, and no ones going to change mine thats just the way it is, and its all good . ok thats the last time i argue with anyone on this lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Hispeed1 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 You guys DO know where Magpul PTS/airsoft is located at right? Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 yea HK. Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 you really think MAgpul PTS does no R&D? they would have to do R&D on atleast some of their product, Pmags, they arent anywhere close to the real ones( in dimensions, internals, materials, etc) as i said others have their theories, and opinions, and i have mine Dude, your kidding right, do you know what R&D is? You did read what I said about CAD, right? This is one of those things where there is a way it's done, no alternate theories. There may be some differences in the process but not by much, they may not have a rapid prototyping machine at PTS but USA would have one. You may have heard of CNC machining, well this is the same thing, but for plastics. For an airsoft product choosing the materials is all going to be pre-assessed from Magpul USAs many experiments on cost/benifit, and again would mostly be done with boardroom/office meetings not lab or field based R&D. In fact very few end product makers actually do their own R&D on synthetic materials, in this circumstance that's left to the polymer maker (like 3M). The PMag is basically all molding, once you get the external design pattern (something Magpul USA would have from the original product design) you change the shape in CAD (with dimensions on hand probably a few days of work including ******* around on the companies dime), print (yes I said print) out a mold and take it to the manufacturing line. The rest is slapping in some Star internals (as that is who is making most of the legal airsoft versions), package... and your done. Well making the molds is not quite that simple (unless you have all those expensive tools) but you get the gist. R&D would be actually designing and testing the original product, including what the best mag material is for high stress environments, asking users for feedback on prototypes, combat testing ect. Outside of a drop on the ground, fit test, and seeing if it feeds I doubt these things see much testing as it is an overly lengthy and expensive process. Taking something and changing the dimensions is not R&D, with modern Computer Aided Design that whole process doesn't take too long. You can even verify if it will fit in most AEG magwells in CAD. But I'm rehashing what I've already said, and it's obvious you don't quite understand it. To anyone who knows how this is all done it's obvious Magpul PTS is one (possibly more) of four things, on short leash on what they can make, under/poorly staffed/managed, under budgeted, or is more concerned with legal issues like licensing and copy rights. Link to post Share on other sites
Kirby1986 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Guys, why are we arguing about R&D, Magpul, legalities? This is about a company who make a chunk of plastic. It just so happens to be similar in shape, size, color, and function as a product which is now discontinued by Magpul. More than anything, clones keep makers such as Magpul on their toes. It provides a cheap and low cost alternative to the name brand and more costly product. Could you imagine is Hanes and Fruit of the Loom went after any company who made cotton t shirts? We would only have 2 choices: Hanes or Fruit of the Loom. I congratulate the clone companies for forcing innovation. In the end, all of the competition between the companies will lead to one result: the consumer (us) will be the ultimate victor. We have lots of choices for a lower price. Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well put Kirby, hopefully we will be. Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Dude, your kidding right, do you know what R&D is? You did read what I said about CAD, right? This is one of those things where there is a way it's done, no alternate theories. There may be some differences in the process but not by much, they may not have a rapid prototyping machine at PTS but USA would have one. You may have heard of CNC machining, well this is the same thing, but for plastics. For an airsoft product choosing the materials is all going to be pre-assessed from Magpul USAs many experiments on cost/benifit, and again would mostly be done with boardroom/office meetings not lab or field based R&D. In fact very few end product makers actually do their own R&D on synthetic materials, in this circumstance that's left to the polymer maker (like 3M). The PMag is basically all molding, once you get the external design pattern (something Magpul USA would have from the original product design) you change the shape in CAD (with dimensions on hand probably a few days of work including ******* around on the companies dime), print (yes I said print) out a mold and take it to the manufacturing line. The rest is slapping in some Star internals (as that is who is making most of the legal airsoft versions), package... and your done. Well making the molds is not quite that simple (unless you have all those expensive tools) but you get the gist. R&D would be actually designing and testing the original product, including what the best mag material is for high stress environments, asking users for feedback on prototypes, combat testing ect. Outside of a drop on the ground, fit test, and seeing if it feeds I doubt these things see much testing as it is an overly lengthy and expensive process. Taking something and changing the dimensions is not R&D, with modern Computer Aided Design that whole process doesn't take too long. You can even verify if it will fit in most AEG magwells in CAD. But I'm rehashing what I've already said, and it's obvious you don't quite understand it. To anyone who knows how this is all done it's obvious Magpul PTS is one (possibly more) of four things, on short leash on what they can make, under/poorly staffed/managed, under budgeted, or is more concerned with legal issues like licensing and copy rights. yea i do know what R&D is, i know what CAD is, and if i didnt i would have google it( naw probably not i hate the term google it lol), so im not dumb. and maybe the Pmags wasnt the best thing to put ill admit that, but i still stand by what i said earlier about how they have to do some R&D, i would say if nothing else the especially the Masada/ACR, but that another topic. and even with CAD, some things still take time. not everything needs Combat testing to have R&D. as i said before im done with all this ###### about MAgpul PTS, i could have all the evidence in the world and it still would change most the people minds. so im done with this. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 WoW, DO WANT!!! any ETA? Indeed this stock looks great even for a clone Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 .... Some things would take R&D, but not as much as the RS counterpart would, and PTS has no excuse for how slow to produce they are. MIAD grips being the one exception (released at the same time as RS). As you can see the UBR probably didn't take much work to reverse engineer. That owns up to either simplicity in design, the replica is not like the real deal, or that there is a leak at Magpul somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 .... eh i dont really know, but i think what i was trying to say in the first place, is that none of us knowwhats going on at Magpul PTS, so none of us can say their is no reason maybe their is? but none of us know. if i had to guess from one of your four conlusions is maybe they are underbudget and can only do so much at a time( like working on an ACR), and/or Magpul USA has them on a short leash, but im just guessng. and kirby i didnt see your last post lol, but Magpul hasnt discontinued the UBR, just today or yesterday they said that in the past 5 or 6 months theyve ramped up production. and as Kirby said enough of this R&D/magpul /legalities lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Bizurkur Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 As soon as there is a black one, I'm buying 3. Link to post Share on other sites
0nslaught Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Guys, why are we arguing about R&D, Magpul, legalities? This is about a company who make a chunk of plastic. It just so happens to be similar in shape, size, color, and function as a product which is now discontinued by Magpul. Really? i thought it was the M93A/B that was discontinued, they stopped making UBR's too!? Link to post Share on other sites
bart_dude Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 hmm Research and Development? CADCAM? yea i take business and DT, i know all of that but why are we talking about it? its not like the R&D hasnt been done before (its just getting a RS product and making it fit for airsoft) basically all the R&D there is is to make the airsoft version not as good (as in wear and tear wise) so the RS customers dont feel like douchebags when there could be a cheaper alternative you want to know my POV? Magpul is a great company, it is very innovative and has a very nice balance between astheastics (spelling ) and ..usage? (you know what i mean ) BUT the airsoft magpul SUCKS *rickrolls*, why cant they just take RS products for example a real UBR stock , supply us a hybrid buffer tube that fits on the normal m4 airsoft bodies but fits the damn UBR stock? charge us more or even better give us a cheaper alternative (aka different materials blah blah) oh btw i totally agree with the guy who says clone companies keep the real companies on their toes i hope magpul makes cheaper products at a faster rate too Link to post Share on other sites
Kirby1986 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Really? i thought it was the M93A/B that was discontinued, they stopped making UBR's too!? My mistake. It was the M93A/b that was discontinued. Thank you for pointing that out kodiak22. As for bart_dude and his comment about how Magpul should supply us with a a hybrid buffer tube: Its been done. And its been out there for a while as well. http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/index....roducts_id=3596 So basically, grab that buffer tube, slap him on your rifle, then you can use any non-milspec stock. Link to post Share on other sites
Lt.Fenix Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 As for bart_dude and his comment about how Magpul should supply us with a a hybrid buffer tube: Its been done. And its been out there for a while as well. http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/index....roducts_id=3596 So basically, grab that buffer tube, slap him on your rifle, then you can use any non-milspec stock. That's not what they're referring to. The UBR takes a proprietary buffer tube that looks like a buffer tube meant for a full stock (essentially a cylinder with a threaded end and a tapped end) yet it's carbine length. The UBR doesn't use the typical M4 buffer tube that has that square extrusion at the bottom. I hope they make a black one for the WA/WE real spec receivers. I'd by one in an instant, assuming it's cheaper than the Magpul price... 260 USD for a stock? Yeah... Link to post Share on other sites
b1indsamurai Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Maybe you guys should wait a bit for the PTS version. I emailed PTS about it and here was their response: _________________________________________________ Hi, PTS version UBR will release in Feb 2009. It is able to fit LiPo battery. Regards Magpul PTS Division ___________________________________________________ I can wait a month if they're true to their word -- plus, it can fit a LiPo :] Link to post Share on other sites
Svack Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 is this the buffer tube you guys are referring to? Link to post Share on other sites
bart_dude Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 lol this is like a dream come true..ive been looking everywhere for a lipo battery stock tube...with a good stock ( i had a UBR in mind) omgggg i can imagine after chinese new year the money i would have to get the lipo in my stocktube :):):) although lipo might of been the cause for my JG 416 gearbox crack...(btw i am really impressed with JG's 416) oh and to clarify one thing...i dont sell UBR stocks and post it and stuff..im just too young to understand it..and too busy but like i would do is give you someones email address (guy called FC that can sells stuff here internationaly) would be awesome if the UBR was light wait a minute samurai...did you tell magpul that china copied their UBR stocks???!?! Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Svack - that one is for a fixed stock, it's similar but the UBR one is shorter. Apparently the Magpul PTS one is gonna have space for a battery when it is released. Don't ask me when though, no idea. Link to post Share on other sites
b1indsamurai Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm sure they are fully aware of all the copies out there -- I asked them when they planned to release the PTS version of the UBR and they answered pretty timely. Link to post Share on other sites
bart_dude Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 nice haha yea i guess they would be aware of the copies lets hope they have *suitcasey* lawyers and it takes them like forever to take legal action although i will save up for the PTS UBR lol Link to post Share on other sites
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