Sayeret Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Truth is nothing will happen, because people don't care. I payed for a TSI knowing it does not have a sight for various reasons, including speaking directly to TSI employees and being able to trust that an American Company will provide for me what I expected. On the other hand, people who bought the ARES got it with this "defective" sight, and instead of doing what they should, which is return the gun and ask for a refund, they ghetto rigged it. Now if you payed 500 dollars so you can ghetto rig your gun to have a non MARS sight, that is fine by me, but I personally know, placed in your situation, that gun would be back at the retailers next day if not same day. Until customers start acting like its a problem when a company does not deliver the goods, this ###### products will keep being made, and shipped, because they trust that their customers do not have enough backbone to say something and actually take action. This is not the first, and definitely not hte last time a manufacturer will sell something that doesnt work and not care. And the only people to blame are the customers themselves. Edited July 13, 2009 by Sayeret Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 The mars never was a mars... it was listed as a red dot sight. It is, no claim to effecacy was made. And the 'can trust an american company to tell you the truth is quite amusing. Or do patriotism classes not cover watergate and enron? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Truth is nothing will happen, because people don't care. I payed for a TSI knowing it does not have a sight for various reasons, including speaking directly to TSI employees and being able to trust that an American Company will provide for me what I expected. On the other hand, people who bought the ARES got it with this "defective" sight, and instead of doing what they should, which is return the gun and ask for a refund, they ghetto rigged it. Now if you payed 500 dollars so you can ghetto rig your gun to have a non MARS sight, that is fine by me, but I personally know, placed in your situation, that gun would be back at the retailers next day if not same day. Until customers start acting like its a problem when a company does not deliver the goods, this ###### products will keep being made, and shipped, because they trust that their customers do not have enough backbone to say something and actually take action. This is not the first, and definitely not hte last time a manufacturer will sell something that doesnt work and not care. And the only people to blame are the customers themselves. I think you have a good point. I'm beginning to think that perhaps I should just send the rifle back for a refund given that no warranty is ever going to fix that rubbish red dot site. I'm cheesed off at ARES who do not seem to give dot - or should I say a red dot. ARES - are you reading this feedback? Do you care? Edited July 13, 2009 by bbstriker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Personally, I would gladly return the ARES Tavor, but it was ordered from overseas. Given the costs and duties payed, I would still lose considerably money if I sent it back. So I am keeping it until TSI Tavor arrives, after which ARES will be sold (for much less that I payed for it). I repeat, if I had the chance to return it, I most definitely would. All I can do about it now is to write about its faults so someone else doesn't make the same error and buys it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rogue845 Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Well, in spite of all the bad press about the MARS sight, pretty much all the talk about the rest of the gun is very positive. So I've decided to take the plunge. I know the red dot is garbage, thanks to everyone here, so I'm gonna try and rig something else. There are plenty pics out there of Tavors with other optics on them, but I know that's not the point. Ares did properly drop the ball on this one. You'd think after the pile of carp that was the G36 Dual Optic they (and we) would have learned. I'll post my thoughts once I've got it and used it in anger (so to speak). Edited July 13, 2009 by Rogue845 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Varry Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) I've paid 96 USD shipping costs, from HK to here, so if i was to send it back and actually GET a refund, i'd still loose the shipment costs (back and forth) which adds up to a total of 192 USD. So the choice was in the ballance, either loosing 192 uSD and end up without a gun, or , like you put it so well "Ghetto"-rig it and owning a great gun nonetheless. I'll see whaat the findings are with the TSI, and if it's really, really, really wonderfull, I might do the same as Hristo; selling the Ares and get a TSI. All I can say again is; Yes the Ares Tavor is a beautyfull and solid gun. Now would I advise someone else to buy an Ares Tavor? No, just because they sell it with a ripoff sight is a sign they do not care about customers satisfaction. So, stay away from that. Edited July 13, 2009 by Varry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Saint Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 All I can say again is; Yes the Ares Tavor is a beautyfull and solid gun. Now would I advise someone else to buy an Ares Tavor? No, just because they sell it with a ripoff sight is a sign they do not care about customers satisfaction. So, stay away from that. Did you buy the Tavor for the sight or the gun? The performance of the MARS is unfortunate, but at the end of the day, it's removable. If ARES didn't care about customers satisfaction, the Tavor itself would've been the problem, not the accessory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sayeret Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 That is why these companies sell garbage, the sight was not a free pointless accessory, people payed for a Tavor with a premounted MARS. It would be "less" of a problem if ARES gave you a damn rail to mount a sight on, but they did not even build the Tavor properly by not including the rail. So at the end of the day, you bought a Tavor w/MARS, not a Tavor w/Defective MARS. The longer it takes people to realize that, the more your gonna get pushed around by companies selling half @$$ goods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Puding Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 i knew full well the failings of the mars when i brought my tavor so i can not complain as it was my choice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Did you buy the Tavor for the sight or the gun? The performance of the MARS is unfortunate, but at the end of the day, it's removable. If ARES didn't care about customers satisfaction, the Tavor itself would've been the problem, not the accessory. I completely agree... So much complaining about an optics, that you would belive most here bought the gun for its sight. Some of us bought the gun for the gun, and are truely satisfied. Yes, the sight is a bit ######, but to be completely honest, I've never been a red dot fan, From the word go, I've intended to fit an ACOG and S barrel to mine... the mars will go in my spares box for all eternity. That Rail Pudding... it looks a bit... fake no? the real is much higher and extends at the front. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) I bought the gun for the IDF look. MARS is essential part, which I also payed for. Without it I would NOT buy the gun, even if it was 100$ less. I have invested a lot into my IDF gear to compromise the whole loadout with an Aimpoint or Eotech. This guns belongs to IDF loadout, and should be correct. That i the only way, I am not interested in combining it with Multicam, CIRAS just as I am not interested in "ghettoing" the gun. Edited July 14, 2009 by Hristo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) the mars is NOT an essential part. I'm not sure about what research you did for this loadout... but the IDF forces use some mars sights, some TA01nsn acogs, some TA51 acogs, and Trijicon relfex sights on thier tavor assault rifles. So the mars is merely one option Its not compromised, its just removed an option till its available... Get an acog? they are pence these days... Edited July 14, 2009 by Steel Rayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Varry Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I bought the guns in it's whole... Do not see the MARS just as an accesory; do a little research; on the RS the MARS is fixed to the barrel (so infantry can not fiddle themselves on it), so it's an integral part of the weapon. So I bought the "tavor-package". the obvious reason why the MARS is of bad quality, while the gun itself is great; is because Ares had the sight probably made by a contractor company, and Ares didn't really quality checked it, or released it deliberately anyway! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Its not actually. Its an integral part of ONE barrel, there is a T21 rifle build with a RIS rail on the barrel.. why dont you go do a little research yourself? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) the mars is NOT an essential part. I'm not sure about what research you did for this loadout... but the IDF forces use some mars sights, some TA01nsn acogs, some TA51 acogs, and Trijicon relfex sights on thier tavor assault rifles. So the mars is merely one option Its not compromised, its just removed an option till its available... Get an acog? they are pence these days... Of course, you are right. My English is not the best so I might have used wrong expression. MARS is very important to an IDF loadout, and many times the only correct choice. However, MARS is only one of optics they use on Tavor. They use ACOG too, but not on CTAR, or extremely rarely. Trijicon reflex ? How much does one cost ? Seen them only on older Tavors few years ago. Yes, I am using ACOG now, but this does not help the feeling that I've been cheated by ARES. Edited July 14, 2009 by Hristo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Well the ares track record for optics should have been a heads up. Trijicon reflexes come in at $400 new, down to $200 second hand with a weaver mount. Mars is important to SOME front line infantry units, some use the reflex, and if you add an extended barrel, then the acog is perfect for the STAR21... (and I have seen acogs on some CTAR21's in country.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeoVeNoM Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) What if the MARS sight of the ARES TAVOR was great performance, for its shape? I would've still removed it. Lets face it, the diameter of the MARS sight is ridiculously small compared to a simple reddot or EOtech. Also, the TSI is going for more than 600USD no? without sight. Anything extra within' this price? the Gas-conversion? or do you need to buy it seperatly? Also like that "american quality made" comment. When I see how much my suppliers try to rip me of in the motorcycle industry, I doubt american quality. Just hope for those who cash out for a TSI get what they want. Edited July 14, 2009 by NeoVeNoM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nutek Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Nice review mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulioc3 Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Hopefully that rail comes out soon in stores, I NEED one. Then just going to add an eotech and call it a day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Varry Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Its not actually. Its an integral part of ONE barrel, there is a T21 rifle build with a RIS rail on the barrel.. why dont you go do a little research yourself? I know, But the Ctar has the Barrel with integrated Mars, and the Ctar is the one Ares is modelling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidson Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Anyone who bought an Ares Tavor should be able to send back the mars sight for a free top and side rail. Yes, people bought the tavor for the tavor, not the sight. But, I didn't want to pay 50-100 bucks out of 500 for a paper weight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) I know, But the Ctar has the Barrel with integrated Mars, and the Ctar is the one Ares is modelling. Again, do you really know? The CTAR21 has various options, NOT just a mars, please know what you are talking about before you correct me. Plus the side rail is odd... the issued one is just one of the under handguard rails from the stock of ar15s... Edited July 14, 2009 by Steel Rayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sayeret Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 If you actually look at any of the CTARs in use in the Israeli Defense Forces, (I am Israeli btw), they mostly do not use a MARS sight. And most of them have a rail so that any mount can be placed. In the army, having a sight built in permanently is ignorant to say the least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Varry Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) Teel rayne, you shouldn't take everything so personal www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB-4Qsdwz5U Edited July 15, 2009 by Varry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steel Rayne Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 quite so sayeret. Varry: I only take being told Im wrong personally Out of curiosity, has anyone tried new batteries in the mars? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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