"DO NOT BUY FROM AIRSOFT ARMOURY"

[Rolfy]

Hi Everyone

 

Just thought I would give you guys a review of my experience with Airsoft Armory.. airsoftarmoury.co.uk

dropped off my KWA M4 SR5 for some repairs / upgrades..

All good .. I wrote down what I wanted to achieve and stated call me with any upgrades you would recommend so I have a reliable FAST 345fbs CQB gun... basically open cheque book for them..

I has also left them a New Systema spring and Turbo Motor...

 

1 week passed.. Called them... yes your gun is here all good to go!

Paid £58.. for Labor and this included a £10 trigger plate..

got a report gun chrono at 335 fps..

 

Took the SR5 to Xcite Airsoft for a Tuesday night meet..

 

Didn't even get through 1 Mid cap Mag... Piston Stripped OUT!

 

The Guy's at Xcite where top class.. got a gun stripped down and I saw the poor work the Engineer from Airsoft Armoury had done!

1. Stripped wires in the Mech Box

2. CUT my new Systema Spring

3. The piston was totally stripped and worn out

 

We put a used Piston in and I finished the night..

 

Called Airsoft Armoury on the Wednesday.. was told the Engineer will be in on Friday morning and will ask him what he has done on this and why he cut your spring.. I will call you back Friday Afternoon..

 

I called at Friday lunch time (1.00) was told the boss has popped out to lunch and will call you back this afternoon..

No Call back

I call Saturday was told " The boss has gone and we dont know where he is ... didn't come back from lunch yesterday"

 

I call the following Tuesday..

"Sorry boss has gone out to lunch" he will call you as soon as he is back..

Now I start to "Kick OFF" on the phone.. I get my message across "I'm not to happy"

 

Well I get a call back from the boss "Owner of the shop" minuets later!! strange that!

 

 

Well he basically said as I'm running a 11.1V Lipo battery that dont matter what gets done to my gun it will brake..

 

WRONG! KWA advertise and recommend that you run a 11.1 Lipo battery as that is what the gun was designed for.. I have personally confirmed this with KWA in California..

 

The conversation goes back and forth, I end up saying

"All I wanted was the £58 back.. but with all the hassle and your argumentative attitude to me the customer you can keep your £58 and I will just let everyone know I've been treated by you and your shop"

 

His response was

"Why don't you take your gun and shove it write up your *albartroth*" then hung up on me"

 

year great customer service!

 

be warned.

 

Carl

[Boom3r]

Just out of interest:

What was the power of the New Systema Spring you supplied ?

What type of piston did you fit ?

Did you tell AA at the time that you were running an 11.1 lipo ?

Did you tell KWA that you were running a Systema Turbo motor with the 11.1v lipo and a spring doing 345fps ?

[LordElpus]

The spring was almost certainly cut to get it under under your desired FPS, and I will echo the questions from Boomer in regards if the engineer knew what you were powering it with.

[Azubi]

I wanna know why you want 345fps for CQB!

[L473ncy]

Just out of interest:

What was the power of the New Systema Spring you supplied ?

What type of piston did you fit ?

 

Not to rag on you or anything but:

 

No good gundoc in their right mind would EVER cut a spring down. If it was shooting too hot then just don't use it. Tell the customer the spring is too hot and they need to buy a less powerful one or use the (what I assume to be) stock spring. Then give them back the original spring.

I don't see how the type of piston has any relation to what was done. If it's stripped because someone screwed up then it's stripped. That being said, cutting off the last tooth from the piston ("short stroking" the piston) is an accepted practice so if it was a result of that either the gundoc is to blame for not asking first or the customer if he gave permission to short stroke.

 

EDIT: Azubi.... I thought 350 was a generally accepted limit for CQB (at least it is in Canada) so 345 is right in the "sweet spot". That being said there are CQB venues that limit guns to 1J (or 330 FPS) and TBH 330 is perfectly fine for playing indoors and 350 is excessive IMO.

[hwagan]

No good gundoc in their right mind would EVER cut a spring down.

 

 

 

Why not? Both my guns are running clipped springs, and have been for 10's of thousands of rounds without a hitch...

[Gigueand]

Cutting a spring down just seems imprecise when you can simply select the correct spring for the desired velocity (i.e. m100, m110 etc) drop it into the gearbox and then complete other gearbox modifications. That way when mechbox upgrades are finished and the gun is all closed up it should chrono near where the customer wants it. The technician then won't have to reopen the gearbox, clip the spring some, reassemble, test, repeat until the desired fps is reached.

 

Nothing wrong with running clipped springs per se (as far as I know).

 

 

Additionally, the whole "KWA am lipo ready!" claims are a bit hyperbolic. All guns are lipo-ready... some are just less ready than others.

[Tom Andrews]

L437ncy, in the UK we are limited to 350 approx for outdoors and generally less for indoor CQB (site dependent)

345 fps would definately be considered to hot for most indoor sites.

 

The OP doesn't say how old his gun is, but I've frequently found that putting a new stronger spring with a used piston is a bad move. Fitting a turbo motor and a 11.1 lipo probably pushed it over the edge.

 

Certainly in an ideal world a clipped spring isn't neccessary, but it is done if the piston seal/hop unit seal is particularly good or poor. If the supplied spring meant the gun chrono'd over 350 outdoors with a sites chrone, then he wouldn't be allowed to play.

[hwagan]

Cutting a spring down just seems imprecise when you can simply select the correct spring for the desired velocity (i.e. m100, m110 etc) drop it into the gearbox and then complete other gearbox modifications. That way when mechbox upgrades are finished and the gun is all closed up it should chrono near where the customer wants it. The technician then won't have to reopen the gearbox, clip the spring some, reassemble, test, repeat until the desired fps is reached.

 

 

Hmmm... I'd be inclined to disagree personally. I've had a Madbull M100 chrono 357FPS, a Guarder SP100 chrono 310FPS, and a G&P M100 chrono 368FPS, all in the same G&P gearbox. There are so many variables, i don't trust any spring's 'rating' anymore - Mainly because of different manufacturers, different test set ups to supply the rating, etc etc.

 

I've found if a spring is giving me 350fps, cutting a single coil off will give me 330fps. That's worked in both my guns - Don't get me wrong, it's by no means an exact science, but i'd rather clip the spring i have than buy another one that may be under or over the desired reading.

 

 

Still, that's all off topic - Personally, i've never had a bad experience with Airsoft Armoury - I wouldn't call them the most 'professional' of airsoft retailers, but they've always been friendly and helpful when i've used them. To the OP, i'd suggest discussing everything again with AA, politely and without getting angry - you'll almost certainly get a much better outcome.

[Wingmann]

 

To the OP, i'd suggest discussing everything again with AA, politely and without getting angry - you'll almost certainly get a much better outcome.

It seems to me that he tried and no one in charge would answer the phone...

[Kenworth W900]

Luckily their prices have put me off since I got into the sport, so I have never encountered there service.

 

Nontheless, thanks for the heads up mate. No airsoft shop (specifically manager) should be saying such things to its valued customers. As such:

 

 

 

 

 

This year Airsoft Amoury shall be my nomination for the Wolf Armouries Memorial Award - named after the first such prize winner, it is a most prestigeous award given to the airsoft retailer deemed to have provided the worst service in the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Spelling

[L473ncy]

OK Fair enough. I accept that you *can* clip a spring but IMHO it's not very professional thing to do and you should try to avoid doing it unless it's "the last option you have" (like Gigueand said it's imprecise and a waste of time to go back and forth opening up the mechbox and clipping a little bit more off) especially since the gundoc in question worked in a retail store and was basically given a "blank cheque".

[spetsnazdave87]

Tbh I think the 'repairs' here are the least of it... anyone who tells a customer to 'shove their gun up their arrse' can expect me to take my dollar else where (well. they could, if i didn't already spend money elsewhere due to their high prices).

[hwagan]

OK Fair enough. I accept that you *can* clip a spring but IMHO it's not very professional thing to do and you should try to avoid doing it unless it's "the last option you have" (like Gigueand said it's imprecise and a waste of time to go back and forth opening up the mechbox and clipping a little bit more off) especially since the gundoc in question worked in a retail store and was basically given a "blank cheque".

 

That's an entirely fair point... If i was paying a professional to fit a spring, i'd expect them to go to the effort of testing and finding the appropriate spring rather than cutting one i guess. Still, i don't really trust very many retailer gunsmiths these days - LandWarrior are very good and clued up, and the new Wolf Armouries technician is excellent, having known him from skirmishing for a fair while. A lot of places these days seem to think 'put decent brand name parts in gearbox, close gearbox, send back' and spend very little time testing and adjusting to ensure reliability.

 

Really it's just another great advert to head on over to www.mechbox.com and get yourself greasy. Definitely a better idea in the long run.

[Brick]

That's an entirely fair point... If i was paying a professional to fit a spring, i'd expect them to go to the effort of testing and finding the appropriate spring rather than cutting one i guess. Still, i don't really trust very many retailer gunsmiths these days - LandWarrior are very good and clued up, and the new Wolf Armouries technician is excellent, having known him from skirmishing for a fair while. A lot of places these days seem to think 'put decent brand name parts in gearbox, close gearbox, send back' and spend very little time testing and adjusting to ensure reliability.

 

Really it's just another great advert to head on over to www.mechbox.com and get yourself greasy. Definitely a better idea in the long run.

At least that way if/when it grinds to a halt you've no-one to argue with about it.

[DarkMM]

Tanyone who tells a customer to 'shove their gun up their arrse' can expect me to take my dollar else where

 

Actually having actually worked on a phone at a call-center and listened to more then a few self-obsessed idiots who couldn't pour their own waste from a boot with instructions written on the sole - that man is now my hero

 

I mean it's not as if the guy answering the phone deliberately waylaid his boss to annoy "rolfy"

[Kenworth W900]

Obviously you worked in yet another call centre where the motto is most definetly not 'the customer is always right'.

 

Being on the other end gives you a clearer perspective on this mate but no amount of abuse from customers should breakdown your proffesionalism. TBH taking abuse is pretty much what call centre workers get paid for these days. In the past you were paid to solve the problems of the customers. But since call centres seem now to be utterly useless at solving any issues at all, allowing the customer to vent their stress on you comes a close second in terms of customer satisfaction.

[Hatchet]

The customer is not always right. However, they will often think that they are and decent customer service generally focuses on resolving their issue without disabusing them of this notion.

 

I'd echo all the other questions such as, did you mention the power, why did you supply a spring that would do over 345 (because otherwise, why would the tech need to cut it down?) and why do you want that for CQB. As for KWAusa recommending 11.1v batteries, this seems to differ from their website where they state:

 

"Power = 8.4V, 9.6V NiMh Battery, or 7.4V, 11.1V Lithium Polymer or Lithium Manganese Battery [Maximum 11.1 V, 20A continuous]"

 

Which comes across to me as maximum, not necessarily recommended. And makes no mention of installing a Turbo (the clue's in the name) motor.

 

I'd also question the benefit of any forum post which will present either a one sided opinion of what was said and done, or - if AA were able and decided to respond - could at best degenerate into "he said, she said".

[Rolfy]

Hi Guys

Ok Here's the back ground on the KWA M4 SR5

I purchased it when I was out in the states in March. has always crono'ed around 305fps, It's a short M4 BUT I do use it in woodland a lot and with a 6.01TB has excellent range for a short M4.

Now has been short stroked and using a reinforced G&P piston shooting 340FPS and is perfect! thanks to XSite!

 

 

I was looking for a way to increase the rate of fire in semi auto

The issue of cutting the spring is the fact no one contacted me and asked if they can cut it or asked if I want to use a low FPS spring to obtain the FPS limit I'm looking for.

also the trouble I had getting someone to contact me and the attitude towards me the customer was all wrong...

 

"And to have the OWNER say that to me then hang up is just not on"

 

Note

I've just purchased a Magpul Masada for £400 from another retailer NOT FROM Airsoft Armoury

"You can never have enough weapons"

 

Carl

 

[Boom3r]

Not really interested in the background of when and where you got it from you've made some serious accusations in your first post and I have put some reasonable questions to you in order that we can gleam a better view of AA's culpability or not, all of which have been ignored.

[Rolfy]

The customer is not always right. However, they will often think that they are and decent customer service generally focuses on resolving their issue without disabusing them of this notion.

 

I'd echo all the other questions such as, did you mention the power, why did you supply a spring that would do over 345 (because otherwise, why would the tech need to cut it down?) and why do you want that for CQB. As for KWAusa recommending 11.1v batteries, this seems to differ from their website where they state:

 

"Power = 8.4V, 9.6V NiMh Battery, or 7.4V, 11.1V Lithium Polymer or Lithium Manganese Battery [Maximum 11.1 V, 20A continuous]"

 

Which comes across to me as maximum, not necessarily recommended. And makes no mention of installing a Turbo (the clue's in the name) motor.

 

I'd also question the benefit of any forum post which will present either a one sided opinion of what was said and done, or - if AA were able and decided to respond - could at best degenerate into "he said, she said".

 

Mate

I just don't want anyone else to be spoken too the way I was, the post was purely from my experience dealing with Airsoft Armoury AND IS 100% AS IT HAPPENED!

 

answer to your questions:

No they never asked what battery I use, I never told them it was a 11.1v Lipo

I use the M4 for CQB and Woodland thats why I want 345fps

 

The problem I have is with the customer service and workmanship from Airsoft Armoury and the way I was spoken too.

 

Carl

 

Just out of interest:

What was the power of the New Systema Spring you supplied ?

What type of piston did you fit ?

Did you tell AA at the time that you were running an 11.1 lipo ?

Did you tell KWA that you were running a Systema Turbo motor with the 11.1v lipo and a spring doing 345fps ?

 

 

 

 

Boom3r I'm not ignoring you, it's just that I've posted this on lots of forums and am answering lots of questions..

 

1. I supplied a M120 spring... If that's to strong why not recommend a M100? or?

2. G&P Reinforced piston that is short stroked now

3. NO never asked what battery I was using "OHHH that's rite that would mean "COMMUNICATING with the customer"

4. KWA stated that there Stock motor is almost as fast as the Systema motor, stock the KWA SR5 shoots 22BB's a sec

 

Please if you have anymore questions just ask away..

 

Carl

 

Luckily their prices have put me off since I got into the sport, so I have never encountered there service.

 

Nontheless, thanks for the heads up mate. No airsoft shop (specifically manager) should be saying such things to its valued customers. As such:

 

 

 

 

 

This year Airsoft Amoury shall be my nomination for the Wolf Armouries Memorial Award - named after the first such prize winner, it is a most prestigeous award given to the airsoft retailer deemed to have provided the worst service in the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Spelling

 

 

Hi Kenworth

It was the OWNER of the shop that spoke to me that way. I also second the nomination as well!

 

Carl

[Boom3r]

Is it not the case that you took your allegedly pristine AEG into AA with its gearbox in bits in a box? And you supplied the new spring and motor.

Is it not also the case that you were told that the spring you supplied and indeed the power level you initially wanted would have meant that the power level the AEG would have had have been in excess of 380 fps? Because you wanted to use it both here and in the US.

 

To achieve a higher rate of fire in semi fit a mosfet. You don't need a Turbo motor to achieve that. Using an 11.1 lipo with a Turbo motor and a spring generating only 345fps is just plain stupid.

 

 

I would say my connection with AA is purely as a customer but I do believe in getting both sides of a story before making any decision. I do not believe you have been completely honest when making this accusation your lack of clarity and obfuscation lends weight to my belief. Given your battery choice the failure was inevitable at least it was only a stripped piston and not a set of expensive gears.

 

Given your rant in your first post, if you had behaved like that on the phone to me I'd have also told you something along the same lines.

[Wingmann]

 

Given your rant in your first post, if you had behaved like that on the phone to me I'd have also told you something along the same lines.

Don't open your own business...

[Boom3r]

Wingmann, luckily for me I'm paid to tell my clients the truth about the situations I deal with for them whether they like it or not.

[L4byr1nth]

Given your rant in your first post, if you had behaved like that on the phone to me I'd have also told you something along the same lines.

 

...AAAAaaaaaannnnd then you'd go bust, as no-one would buy from you.

 

Talking to someone like that is disrespectful, immature, and makes me wonder why people like that are in retail, let alone owning a shop.

 

You have to accept if you mess a repair or a service up and then try and dodge the customer, you're going to make him angry.

 

Ben.