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MikeLondon

H&K Picture Thread

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I don't understand the purpose of magwell grips anymore (in RS or training applications).  Haven't the gun guys like Costa, Haley, Yeager, et al gone to a thumb-over-bore grip now?  I know most everyone I play with has for both their real weapons and training tools.

 

Not attacking anyone here btw.  After all, it's airsoft.  If it works for you, keep it up.

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It does put less fatigue on the arm muscles holding the weapon that way, I use it sometimes when I'm just camping it up and covering a door or something.  Seems a bit funny to me, especially in a hobby full of people that are so quick to complain about anything expensive or 'pointless' (tourniquets on impression loadouts etc) that so many folks spend cash on foregrips they never use.  I mean if they want to, hey crack on, just don't then whine about the fact you don't have as much money in your bank as you'd like any more.

 

Actually I think a lot of it comes down to people buying rifles with plastic handguards, wanting a cooler looking gun, fitting a rail and foregrip then realising 'oh, I don't like this added weight when it comes to skirmish day' but then not wanting to then take a (perceived) step backwards to plastic handguards again.  Also (in this country at least) you'll get more ignorant people trying to take the about the fact you use thumb-over-bore than have ever actually tried it themselves.  Or indeed read up on what the advantages are.  It's seen by many as just an attempt to look cool, so as with multicam/mapgul/gucci MOLLE gear/anything else that's come out in the last 10 years, there's always some washed-up old fart standing at the edge of the safe zone who secretly wishes he could afford such things on his job seekers' allowance whispering to his other loser mates about how he thinks you're a homosexual.

Edited by CKinnerley
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It does put less fatigue on the arm muscles holding the weapon that way, I use it sometimes when I'm just camping it up and covering a door or something.  Seems a bit funny to me, especially in a hobby full of people that are so quick to complain about anything expensive or 'pointless' (tourniquets on impression loadouts etc) that so many folks spend cash on foregrips they never use.  I mean if they want to, hey crack on, just don't then whine about the fact you don't have as much money in your bank as you'd like any more.

 

Actually I think a lot of it comes down to people buying rifles with plastic handguards, wanting a cooler looking gun, fitting a rail and foregrip then realising 'oh, I don't like this added weight when it comes to skirmish day' but then not wanting to then take a (perceived) step backwards to plastic handguards again.  Also (in this country at least) you'll get more ignorant people trying to take the about the fact you use thumb-over-bore than have ever actually tried it themselves.  Or indeed read up on what the advantages are.  It's seen by many as just an attempt to look cool, so as with multicam/mapgul/gucci MOLLE gear/anything else that's come out in the last 10 years, there's always some washed-up old fart standing at the edge of the safe zone who secretly wishes he could afford such things on his job seekers' allowance whispering to his other loser mates about how he thinks you're a homosexual.

 

Arguably the most hilarious and helpful response I've gotten in a long while hahahaha...

 

And I guess I'll be that guy that the old fart is whispering about lol.  Whatever works, I suppose haha

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For the grip (yay for OT, but I'll make this quick) that Travis, etc. are teaching; it's meant to control recoil along with allowing rapid transitions from target to target without you 'over-swaying' your rifle when you try to transition as fast as possible when your life is on the line (or when your score is on the line for competitions).

For airsoft; there is hardly ANY recoil, even if you ran say a TM MP7 or any other hard kicking GBBRs that would give significance for the thumb-break (or brake? I don't remember) method or thumb-over-bore method for recoil management.  Sure, if you use those methods for recoiling gas guns it'll help; but the significance of doing those holds over a real crappy hold should be negligible.

 

However, for rapid transition; the over-sway from magwell holds are due to the fact that you have a lot of weight in front of your support hand that is on the magwell.  This means that there is momentum generated assuming your fulcrum is at the magwell, and every time you rapidly transition from target to target you'll be fighting against the momentum of all the weight at the front.  With short guns like the MP5 which the magwell hold was used almost universally (from what I remember watching those Magpul vids) it's not so much an issue given that there's little weight in front of the support hand on the magwell to have the momentum at your disadvantage.

 

For it's application in airsoft; I think that is up to how your gun is set up.  If you have a magpul MOE gun (say, one of those that G&P makes), the alu barrel and plastic handguards would make it negligible in weight; meaning that there should not be any significance in target transitioning between the thumb methods above, and a magwell hold.  In contrast; if you run an M27 IAR kitted out with steel barrels, gas blocks, etc.  and you slap on PEQs, large SF lights and a vertical grip; I think you'll find that the thumb methods will work MUCH better than using a magwell grip when transitioning targets.

The magwell grip has an advantage of allowing the user to transition between targets quicker (for some reason I can't figure out why in terms of the ergonomics and the way the body is positioned right now) and you can demonstrate that by trying both the thumb methods and the magwell grip yourself.
 

Basically; I think one should understand the REASONS why those grip methods were developed in terms of their purposes rather than just applying it to long arms for the thumb methods and magwell grip for short guns.  In reality; if you have a 20 inch gun (non-bullpup) that has a super light weight front end; the magwell grip should not be significantly disadvantageous in recoil management and target transition compared to a short sub-gun.

 

Oh and being from Hong Kong, I should disclaim that I've never fired real steel before to justify the above with 'experience'.  That said; all of the above is just physics and it should be an exact science with what I wrote above.  There might be other things that I have missed though; so I suppose if anyone wants to discuss this further I think a new thread should be made XD

Edited by intinerious

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For the grip (yay for OT, but I'll make this quick) that Travis, etc. are teaching; it's meant to control recoil along with allowing rapid transitions from target to target without you 'over-swaying' your rifle when you try to transition as fast as possible when your life is on the line (or when your score is on the line for competitions).

 

For airsoft; there is hardly ANY recoil, even if you ran say a TM MP7 or any other hard kicking GBBRs that would give significance for the thumb-break (or brake? I don't remember) method or thumb-over-bore method for recoil management.  Sure, if you use those methods for recoiling gas guns it'll help; but the significance of doing those holds over a real crappy hold should be negligible.

 

Basically; I think one should understand the REASONS why those grip methods were developed in terms of their purposes rather than just applying it to long arms for the thumb methods and magwell grip for short guns.  In reality; if you have a 20 inch gun (non-bullpup) that has a super light weight front end; the magwell grip should not be significantly disadvantageous in recoil management and target transition compared to a short sub-gun.

 

Oh and being from Hong Kong, I should disclaim that I've never fired real steel before to justify the above with 'experience'.  That said; all of the above is just physics and it should be an exact science with what I wrote above.  There might be other things that I have missed though; so I suppose if anyone wants to discuss this further I think a new thread should be made XD

 

That was quick?  Lol...  Just kidding.

 

I run a "heavy" recoil WE AR equipped with all the goodies you mentioned (steel barrel, PEQ, lights, etc), so for me, the thumb-break method works best.  All your points are quite good, especially for someone who's never shot a real AR.  Having fired a real AR myself, the thumb-break was excellent for managing recoil, and I've found that even with my airsoft gun, looking at videos of myself firing it there's hardly any recoil, but when I let someone at the field give it a go, more often than not their arms are shaking and their follow up shots are well off target from their original.  It's definitely more applicable to GBBRs than AEGs, and perhaps that's why I use it.  I deffo run a different grip on my MP5 AEG when I use that, but I've always blamed the charging handle for getting in the way there haha...

 

Well, that was fun.  Anyways, back OT.

 

Here's that MP5 I mentioned.  I need to cut the barrel down a bit so it fits inside the original "Navy" flash hider again, and I want to rewire the gun to the front and toss a retractable stock on there.

 

I'm debating painting the whole damn thing in that A-TACSy scheme.  Anyone know where I could get some trademark transfers or stickers?  I'll probably tape off the B&T trades since I like those, but I need a new selector switch and would also need stickers or something for the safe/semi/full bullets.

 

MP5closeup_zps0376c3c8.jpg

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That was quick?  Lol...  Just kidding.

 

I run a "heavy" recoil WE AR equipped with all the goodies you mentioned (steel barrel, PEQ, lights, etc), so for me, the thumb-break method works best.  All your points are quite good, especially for someone who's never shot a real AR.  Having fired a real AR myself, the thumb-break was excellent for managing recoil, and I've found that even with my airsoft gun, looking at videos of myself firing it there's hardly any recoil, but when I let someone at the field give it a go, more often than not their arms are shaking and their follow up shots are well off target from their original.  It's definitely more applicable to GBBRs than AEGs, and perhaps that's why I use it.  I deffo run a different grip on my MP5 AEG when I use that, but I've always blamed the charging handle for getting in the way there haha...

 

I take it you've never seen my other contributions on Arnies :P  I had a PM that was around 3.5k words :D

 

Anyway, yes to someone that's never fired a rifle before (extensively) their shots will be all over the place because they don't tense up to brace the recoil.  But I don't think that's a fair comparison because even IF you force them into a thumb-break / thumb over bore method the matter is their muscles aren't bracing for the recoil and the shots will be all over the place regardless (albeit probably slightly better with the thumb methods).

 

Enough with the wall of text; lemme post some H&K stuff :D

 

20130107_174535_zps10e00316.jpg

 

20130107_174546_zpsfc4ab226.jpg

 

 

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I love how i posted a 2 sentence comment on the possiblity of adding a magwell grip, and it turns into a multiple paragraph argument over recoil and such things. :) Love these forums.

 

Lol...  No argument here mate - just a quick, civil discussion.

 

That G36 is nice...  I just can't get past the mags though.  They're way too bulky for my taste.

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Fair enough.  I've been pondering the feasibility of modding RS G36 Magpul mags to fit around the internals of a WE G39 mag.  If I ever do it, I'll let you lot know.

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VFC IAR AEG:
 

That is a nice looking AEG. Glad a ACOG + doctor sight looks good on that. 

 

 

 

Fixed my grip on my MP7.  Got the FMA metal rail system for the MP7 off eHobby and using a KAC front grip until I can find a shorter one.

wI8Gk.jpg

9T3TN.jpg

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