FPS/MEDs - Why?

[ninja master of coffee]

I'd agree that it's mostly about the quality of the players though I'd also say having very high FPS limits has a tendancy to attract and encourage the douchebags. I've seen a guy with newly obtained SAW that was doing in excess of 400fps just hose a guy in a bush all of five meters away, I was yelling at him to cease fire on the guy and he either couldn't hear me or didn't care cos he kept on firing for around 20 seconds... moron. That said you get idiots with less powerful guns, I had a guy at the mall tell me he "only normally went for headshots" to which I thought, why? It's not like you get an extra ten points, you just massively increase the chance of injuring someone. I personally go for a body shot unless I have no choice, in which case I try and keep the burst short and hope the other player is either wearing full face or is keeping their mouth shut. As for the actual advantages of higher FPS, as many have said it's really more about the hop, barrel and BB quality, yes good hop, barrel and BBs coupled with higher FPS will result in even more range but honestly, my stock marui M733 competes with most 330fps guns and has less of a tendancy to maim people. Futhermore lower range and punch mean I actually have to think through and attack a bit more which I believe in turn makes me a better player. That's not to say I haven't seen very good players using higher FPS guns, it's just that I don't think the higher FPS was the reason they did better.

[adadqgg]

incidentally, the MAXIMUM fps for an AEG is approx 420fps~ before there is very little adding FPS does to increase range.

 

Woah! I hear you decry such foul blasphemy. The reason is simple, beyond that range (Approx 225-50feet) There are simply too many factors to reliably score a BB on target. I've used a friend 1000fps L96, and we couldn't achieve hits beyond 250 feet reliably, why? Breeze, at 250ft is 5-10ft off on the BB, inconsistencies in the BB, FPS inconsistencies, it became near impossible to reliably hit anything beyond that. Yes you CAN get 300ft shots at 1000fps, BUT not accurately (a 300 foot wind-free warehouse is not a good example)

 

Now in order to give DMR's and Snipers a chance when going against FA AEG's. So 350fps is fine for FA AEG's and 420 for Semi's

Or you can fire while wind is not blowing...

 

Realsteel also face this issue when shooting long range and people just...learn to deal with it.

[Dagonet]

I would like to think that the MED rule over here (varies from site to site) will impact on the player that with higher power you also get a disadvantage of minimum engagement range.

 

Last game, several new faces, with bolties. 1 had a springer pistol as back up, the other two had no back up, so once you got within MED they where useless and had a hard day. And being new the rifles where box stock and not set up so my AEG 300fps, outranged our so called sniper running 420fps, he got shot lots.

 

At safety brief all those running 350+ DMRs and Bolties are identified and rules of MED explained to all. We have player marshals and field marshals, so new faces tend to be watched. Not many regulars play over 350fps the forum tends to steer people away from that if they are new, i like the place i play, because the level of players is high. I went somewhere else nearby....once....full auto indoors, no real game play, ROF'ed up hot chinasofts with hi-caps, if it moves hose it down. Too many idiots so i never went back.

 

You have to be a player of quality to make higher FPS work for you where i am. Poor players trying it on don't last long.

[Azubi]

I went somewhere else nearby....once....full auto indoors, no real game play, ROF'ed up hot chinasofts with hi-caps, if it moves hose it down. Too many idiots so i never went back.

 

Where was that?

[Im going space]

More sites need sniper certification like xsite, ANYTHING (dmr/sniper) over 350, gets a 30m MED, and you are tested on youre perception of 30m before you can use it.

 

 

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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?xshgsb

[Cannonfodder80]

This will probably go down like a lead balloon but sod it, personally I don't like MEDs because if someone is going to act like cock then they will do so, no matter how many site rules you put in place. Also it's far easier to judge range when just standing about than when the plastic starts flying. My regular site runs fine without one and we have had no issues as there is an unwritten rule that if someone is close and you're using a high powered rifle then you either offer a surrender (if they don't take it then they can't complain) or you aim for a spot which don't do damage, eg a pouch. Also all players are advised to wear a full race mask and told if you don't then you only have yourself to blame if you do get shot in the face.

 

As someone else posted on the first page if you don't like a site's rules then don't go there

 

 

[FireKnife]

As someone else posted on the first page if you don't like a site's rules then don't go there

 

Yep,

 

But at the end of the day i have played sites that run 328 outdoors and 370 (with no real chronoing to speak of) and i have felt the same about both sites. I have also attended a site which was 370 with medium ranges and 370 with long ranges (a bugger with a pistol ) and even a local game on a farm owners own land (his site, his land, his insurance, his rules) that set 400fps as the limit on all AEG's. At the end of the day i felt no different at each site as they all had reasonably well cued up players. At the end of the day nothing makes a site like the players and if i ran one (and i am looking into it) i would judge and evaluate the actions of my attendees, if any didn't play within the rules off they go, would rather lose a paying customer or two than get a bad reputation and lose ten.

 

'FireKnife'

[Dagonet]

Azubi, the site is no longer running, i only have hearsay and gossip as to why it shut down. I only went once, not for me, so never went back.

As it's coming through in other posts, if all the players are going to "play the game" then MEDs can be relaxed.

 

It has cropped up about sniper/dmr players being vetted before being allowed to free play, i like the part where the vetting team shoot you with your own rifle at your MED so you know what it's like.

Think that was in the reviews section on Well MB06 bolties, sure some of the scottish sites have a system of vetting in place too.

 

Accidents will happen, and no one is forcing you to play with poor players on poorly run sites. And after twice shot in the teeth at range i now run a lower mesh mask, or a paintball mask indoors, which i haven't done for ages, all woodland now.

[Im going space]

Funny thing is, at 30m you cant hear my l96, so in the middle of a skirmish... Combine that with a decent bit of cover...

[Cannonfodder80]

And?

[Lightbulb]

I would just like to point out that I had a tooth knocked out 5 years ago by a stock TM gun at about 20m (60 feet) that's 280fps.

 

Everyone should wear face protection at all times in my opinion.

 

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Having a MED on AEG's strikes me as odd but so long as its applied to all players it ok. Does mean you HAVE to have secondary though which strikes me as a big disadvantage...

[heroshark]

It's all about being sensible at the end of the day . I've played private games for years without limits or meds and no serious injuries ,its all about the players imo ,not the meds or fps . Players protect themselves as they see fit ,if they get dammaged on their head be it.

[Cannonfodder80]

Players protect themselves as they see fit ,if they get dammaged on their head be it.

 

This, for example I've used goggles for years and have taken headshots more than once (the closest was a 500fps boltie from sub 5 yards*) and every time it was the same person's fault. Mine for choosing not to wear a full face mask

 

*Was crawling to sneak up on a sniper when I raised my head to crawl over a log as he pulled the trigger

[Lone_Bullet]

Rant.

 

 

One have to respect the Germans for being forced to play semi only @ 350 ( I believe ) FPS.

Instead of adapting the AEG to the field, they adapt their tactics and playstyle.

And look, they're still having fun.

 

I don't like the ' deal with it ' attitude.

Feels like racing 100Km/h in a small town, running over some person and then blaming him for not using the cross walk.

Drive slower, lesser impact/ damage. Called risk management. As a adult you should be able to understand this.

 

If you inflict pain by using higher velocity, and tell the victim to deal with it, you think it normal he simply shouts HIT and walk to safety? It takes A LOT OF gentleman-being for not shouting ' YAAARGH ' really loud, shouting obscenities and swearing and jumping around when one is hit in a sensitive area on the body such as inner thighs, centre of the back and head/neck.

If I knew that person was close with a high velocity AEG then yes, I'd have difficulties not being outraged. At the very minimum i'd ask a marshal to crono him ingame.

 

If you're upping the velocity because 'everyone else does', well, that very poor sport. '

Because they don't take their hits', then you just punish the people who DO take their hits even more.

Because you can't penetrate vegetation, well sneak around, get closer.

Because they dodge your BB's, well again... tactics... get closer.

Because you're just like that; hurting people, well I'll just suppress the urge to slap you around the face and report you.

Because I'll just should wear protection ( not everyone wears a plate carries / hydration / full face mask ), well you expect me to cushion every patch of skin so you can feast with your 500 FPS weapon? Let me bring out my attack dogs then.

 

Because you play in the desert... um...yes... nothing to say about that, really.

 

I'll be just feeding some trolls here, but I had to let it out. Here in Belgium people are following the same trend... >.<

//Rant

[Agent Hunk]

A few years back around here 400 was a limit. Now its a goal. People's desire to push their gun to the limit often leaves them going all in on "hardware" like upgrades and ignoring "software" like tactics and flanking. It's kinda depressing but satisfying to still out flank and maneuver them. And at the end of the day, "Oh my gun wasn't shooting right."

 

I won't get into my hate of MED here though.

[heroshark]

My point was intended that not only for players to protect themselves properly but to respect the fps and rof monsters their using if that's what they are choosing to use.

[Leon Kennedy]

A few years back around here 400 was a limit. Now its a goal. People's desire to push their gun to the limit often leaves them going all in on "hardware" like upgrades and ignoring "software" like tactics and flanking. It's kinda depressing but satisfying to still out flank and maneuver them. And at the end of the day, "Oh my gun wasn't shooting right."

 

I won't get into my hate of MED here though.

 

Agree 100%. Sad part is our field doesn't even require a chrono. Just walk on.

[gisburn20]

our field doesn't even require a chrono. Just walk on. drive past

 

 

Fixed LOL!

 

Jim

[Lone_Bullet]

My point was intended that not only for players to protect themselves properly but to respect the fps and rof monsters their using if that's what they are choosing to use.

My point was intended that not only for players to protect themselves properly but to respect the fps and rof monsters their using if that's what they are choosing to use.

 

Dear Heroshark, my rant was not at all aimed at you .

[TheFull9]

Fields set their limits, and one would hope that those limits are both sensible and rigorously enforced. Personally I don't wear a great deal of protective kit at a 330 site with long ranges and that's my choice, but at 340 in an aggressive CQC environment I'll gear up a lot more.

 

People who believe that FPS is everything are plain wrong, simple as, it's an established fact that working on your hop and consistency will yield you much greater performance gains. That's certainly a problem that's endemic through the mindsets of certain groups.

 

What has remanied consistent since the dawn of time is that dangerous people will be the ones who do the damage. Blind-firing, excessive over-killing (particularly at close ranges), using a PTW/ACR/NPAS to break chrono rules, lobbing BFGs, running around like headless chickens in the dark without looking where they're going.. those things are the real problems. The closest I've come to suffering an eye injury was when I was crawling through the woods at night, working my way up a slight gradient heading towards a good firing spot... and some moronic little *suitcase* on my own team comes steam rolling along from behind, runs over me delivering a good kick or two, knocks off my eye pro and falls over himself, before proceeding to ingore the fact that anything's happened, not apologise and immediately get shot by the enemy.

 

Pain and injury caused through sheer ignorance, laziness and idiocy can be a direct result of various different factors; unnecessary FPS can be one of those factors and I would say that often stems from players who prioritise 'victory' over safety and just enjoying the experience. To an experienced tweaker most of my rifles shoot like *suitcase*, they just look pretty because that's what I care about and as long as they can sling a few BBs to a range which reasonably enables me to compete in skirmishes then I'm perfectly happy. I spend almost zero time or money on my internals because I much prefer to spend that time on my little garden 'range' running reloads and shoulder transitions, reason being that when I'm in the game and I pull off a good bit of manipulation then I get a lot of enjoyment from that, even if I perhaps don't capture the base and win the war on that occasion.

 

I think it's folks who use excessive FPS and unsound tactics because they're desperate to win who most often pose the threat, when the fact is that this is not real combat and you/your mates/innocent civilians do not die if you lose the game. Getting 'in' to the game is all good and very much a part of airsoft, but forgetting what it is you're actually doing (i.e. participating in an amateur sport using toy guns) and acting like you're fighting for the survival of the entire galaxy will only end in bad stuff happening.

[WhiteHawksan]

I think my esteem of you Mister Kinnerly went up several additional notches with that very well thought out and measured post.

 

But I think you really did hit the nail on the head, it's not FPS, I've played with 450fps china-clones in FA in a close knit forest with friends, and not a single person was hurt that day. The reason people get hurt is because they want to 'win'. This is AIRSOFT, not paintball, if you have to compete against other players you're in the wrong sport.

 

I don't mean, don't try and win, but where victory overrides fun you're in the wrong game.

 

I've played games where my strategy has won the game, single handed. I've played games, where my stupidity has cost my entire team the game. Neither outcome affected my enjoyment of the game. The only games I've not enjoied are where people have been playing to 'win' and usually at any cost, whether it be sportsmanship, rules or even safety out the window to claim victory.

[TheFull9]

FPS is part of the issue I think, an irresponsible player utilising dangerous tactics (e.g. blind firing) with a 400 FPS rifle is, on a base level, somewhat more likely to cause an injury than an irresponsible player using a stock TM at 280. I'd say it's really down the the site operators to ensure that whatever the FPS limit they set at their field is appropriate for the terrain and that they enforce said limit stringently; particularly with regards to their regular players. I've not seen it myself, but it pains me inside every time I read a story about marshals who let their 'mates' run hot guns, as if the fact that they've known this person a while somehow makes the BBs their AEG fires any safer.

[PureSilver]

People who believe that FPS is everything are plain wrong, simple as

 

I think you're right not only in the sense that higher FPS is the sole answer to better performance, but also in the sense that higher FPS is the sole cause of injury. People are going to get hurt airsofting; being shot is painful. The best we can hope to do is manage the risk to an acceptable level.

 

I'd say it's really down the the site operators to ensure that whatever the FPS limit they set at their field is appropriate for the terrain and that they enforce said limit stringently; particularly with regards to their regular players. I've not seen it myself, but it pains me inside every time I read a story about marshals who let their 'mates' run hot guns, as if the fact that they've known this person a while somehow makes the BBs their AEG fires any safer.

 

Absolutely. Enforcement is key, and I like the Mall's somewhat controversial tactic of chrono-ing every gun they permit to play. Knowing that you won't be allowed to play is a potent discouragement to people who would otherwise surreptitiously add 50 or more FPS for some largely-imaginary advantage.

[FireKnife]

The real big issue stems from the same reason i pay more for my car insurance, people using something powerful that they don't understand in a dangerous and untrained manner. Same with idiots that have no training driving over powered engine cars. I have a Dad that is a rally driver, he has a basic 1.6 engine in his car but it is tuned to stick to the track and make sure that while he isn't the fastest he is the one still on the track. I have the same view in airsoft, i have a tuned out of the box pistol, nothing specially i have just taken care of it and learned to properly use it, still gets me a good chance of getting people out and fires at a FPS that is never ever going to be too hot for any site.

 

But hey, too many people assume that all good comes from power and having the biggest, doing anything to win. I have nothing to prove, no huge amount to spend on some 400fps monster gun, a sense of sport and humour and a better understanding of safety. But you ask another player which he would rather have flinging plastic at him and i can see me getting the thumbs up everytime, same for any other decent player that knows just what they should be doing, like CK said.

 

Too bad we can't have an airsoft site where you have to fill out an IQ paper to play and have a low limit of 315fps, but with whatever other tuning you want, i would play that any day

 

'FireKnife'

[Redshirt 1-7]

I haven't had a good opportunity to post again. It feels like a disservice to right such a short post with all these great replies.

 

Kinnerley nailed it on the head, I've come to despise the play-to-win people (they seem to have the highest percentage of cheating and safety disregard among other unsavory things). To those who said that it's an accepted risk to have high-energy guns floating around the field, it's an accepted risk to step outside my house at any given time, but it's not okay to be mugged is it?

 

If anyone took me wrong, let me clarify by saying I think it's simply lazy and unfair to enforce MED restrictions on everyone regardless of FPS, but personally as long as safety is observed I don't see why others can't have 400+ setups. I keep others' safety in mind but there's a point when it's stupid to not be allowed to take a safe shot because I don't have an expensive sidearm like they do. Pistol elitism has led to many people around here just charging in and ignoring AEG fire as if that guy 21 feet away can't hit him somehow.

 

The people suggesting FPS = range in here: I have a friend with an uber shorty (practically four inch barreled) AR, and it shoots nearly as far as my M4 with good upgrades. It probably chronos a good 30 FPS less too.