VFC UMP GBB

[Katotaka]

eh..... OK, I gotta sell my G&G UMG..............

 

Never mind, shut up and take my kidney!

[hwagan]

To be fair, I have a Gen 1 VFC M4 and I still think its the best AR15 GBBR. Though I swapped out the bolt to a 416 bolt, added a steel one piece outer barrel, steel trigger set, AR15 heavy carbine buffer, tightbore and new hop rubber. Shoots well and at 40m/130ft its as accurate as a CAR15 firing 55gr. So I am pleased. It does work rather well.

 

So you've bought a very high end product, have had to replace most of the internal working parts as well as some of the externals, and you think it's the best AR15 GBBR? My WOC has had a new hop rubber and barrel and I can hit a torso every time without wind at 50 meters with a .3 travelling 320FPS... I was under the impression VFC's already came with a steel trigger group already? Still, I'd say it's probably the best replica, but I'm not so sure it's the best skirmish platform... Hell, I love my WOC but I'd still say a WE or now a KWA is probably a better platform for your average gamer if you can get over the lack of trades (which I can't, hence the WOC).

 

One of VFC's greatest qualities is one of their biggest let downs with GBBR's; Sheer attention to detail. They spend way too much time, money and effort making it as internally and externally realistic as humanly possible, and that doesn't always work well with Airsoft. Sure, the VFC Mp5 might take an R/S trigger unit, but if that prevents the installation of a decently reliable blowback engine or soaks up all the money that should be spent designing one, what's the point unless it's for a wall hanger? I figure VFC are aiming at the Japanese 'I want a real gun to fiddle with' sort of market, where reliability might not be such an issue... I'm crossing my fingers the UMP will be the exception, as I've loved the gun since it appeared in CS, but I'm not holding out much hope

[emp3ror86]

I sold once my G&G UMG. Then I bought it back.

 

I feel for you guys who got screwed over with the MP5. I hope that VFC learned something from that failure of theirs.

 

hwagan: you are most right. KSC/KWA sacrificed some realism and made a reliable GBBR instead.

[rusTORK]

I think it's may have problems with:

 

1. Trademarks (one more reason to hate Umarex) [99%];

2. Trigger group (Material quality) [100%];

3. Magazine (possible gas leak);

4. Bolt lock (material quality);

5. Back of receiver (like on WE SCARs) b'coz of heavy recoil.

[IronWolf]

The view permissions for the original youtube clip have been removed , did anyone download a copy that they could re-host?

[LordElpus]

perhaps that info wasn't supposed to be released yet. Or they "leaked" it too early

[WhiteHawksan]

gah. The UMP is one of my favourite guns, and yet, I know that it's probably jsut a port of the god-awful paperweight that is the MP5 internals and mags. *cry*

[hitmanNo2]

At least the recoil looks pretty good unless they are severely putting it on.

[3vi1-D4n]

So you've bought a very high end product, have had to replace most of the internal working parts as well as some of the externals, and you think it's the best AR15 GBBR? My WOC has had a new hop rubber and barrel and I can hit a torso every time without wind at 50 meters with a .3 travelling 320FPS... I was under the impression VFC's already came with a steel trigger group already? Still, I'd say it's probably the best replica, but I'm not so sure it's the best skirmish platform... Hell, I love my WOC but I'd still say a WE or now a KWA is probably a better platform for your average gamer if you can get over the lack of trades (which I can't, hence the WOC).

 

One of VFC's greatest qualities is one of their biggest let downs with GBBR's; Sheer attention to detail. They spend way too much time, money and effort making it as internally and externally realistic as humanly possible, and that doesn't always work well with Airsoft. Sure, the VFC Mp5 might take an R/S trigger unit, but if that prevents the installation of a decently reliable blowback engine or soaks up all the money that should be spent designing one, what's the point unless it's for a wall hanger? I figure VFC are aiming at the Japanese 'I want a real gun to fiddle with' sort of market, where reliability might not be such an issue... I'm crossing my fingers the UMP will be the exception, as I've loved the gun since it appeared in CS, but I'm not holding out much hope

 

LOL I can't disagree with what you have pointed out. The WOCs have fantastic accuracy out of the box while the VFC is plagued with a 2 piece outer barrel and a hop rubber that doesn't work (only place the VFC hop rubber actually worked well is on my Inokatsu M240b). However, I have broken a WOC right out of the box before, and finding the right type of magazine is either trial and error or $$$ while the VFC mags are fantastic and consistent as is.

 

For an average gamer I would point them towards the WE M4 open bolt (I haven't tried the KWA); accuracy is usually good, Gen 2 mags are pretty reliable, and has good cold weather performance.and all that is required is a steel trigger set. Though it can't use light BBs and may require tuning for the right hop nub --> right hop up trajectory.

 

The thing I do like with the VFC M4/MP5 and is that it has a built in firing pin/gas valve disconnector built into the receiver which is more durable than the WE or the WA systems.

 

The default VFC M4 comes with pot metal trigger sears and can be replaced with steel ones which are on the VFC MK18 as standard. But even then the issue is that the hammer strikes one point of the bolt carriera nd causes even the steel hammer to snap. This can be rectified by modding the bolt surfaces (on the Real steel Colt 9mm bolt carriers required a 9mm hammer as the original 5.56 hammer would break on repeated impact with its uniquely shaped BCG, newer 9mm BCG fixed these issues).

 

I like the VFC designs because they do spend a lot of time replicating a real steel 1:1 but they have some fundamental design flaws which makes them poor skirmish pieces. If one knows what they are doing then the VFC can be made into a very good skirmishing platform. If not, its more of a wallhanger.

 

The deciding factor in what determines a good skirmish piece is the consistency/reliability and availability of magazines. Everything else can be worked on but if the design is dependent on a gas valve disconnector which wears out on each mag and leaks, it doesn't really matter how well it shoots or how durable its innards are. The other factor is functionality in various conditions (sand, rain, mud, hot, cold). A functioning VFC M4 is arguably more skirmishable than a Viper because it has cheap, consistent mags and can cycle better in most temperature ranges in any fire mode in any environment (sand, rain, mud). The durability is probably the 3rd important factor as triggers wear and snap even on the real steel.

 

In the same criteria, the MP5 is a very poor skirmish piece as its mags are unreliable and is plagued with cool down.

[bankz5152]

I would still much much rather WE/WA to make one.

[hwagan]

LOL I can't disagree with what you have pointed out. The WOCs have fantastic accuracy out of the box while the VFC is plagued with a 2 piece outer barrel and a hop rubber that doesn't work (only place the VFC hop rubber actually worked well is on my Inokatsu M240b). However, I have broken a WOC right out of the box before, and finding the right type of magazine is either trial and error or $$$ while the VFC mags are fantastic and consistent as is.

 

For an average gamer I would point them towards the WE M4 open bolt (I haven't tried the KWA); accuracy is usually good, Gen 2 mags are pretty reliable, and has good cold weather performance.and all that is required is a steel trigger set. Though it can't use light BBs and may require tuning for the right hop nub --> right hop up trajectory.

 

The thing I do like with the VFC M4/MP5 and is that it has a built in firing pin/gas valve disconnector built into the receiver which is more durable than the WE or the WA systems.

 

The default VFC M4 comes with pot metal trigger sears and can be replaced with steel ones which are on the VFC MK18 as standard. But even then the issue is that the hammer strikes one point of the bolt carriera nd causes even the steel hammer to snap. This can be rectified by modding the bolt surfaces (on the Real steel Colt 9mm bolt carriers required a 9mm hammer as the original 5.56 hammer would break on repeated impact with its uniquely shaped BCG, newer 9mm BCG fixed these issues).

 

I like the VFC designs because they do spend a lot of time replicating a real steel 1:1 but they have some fundamental design flaws which makes them poor skirmish pieces. If one knows what they are doing then the VFC can be made into a very good skirmishing platform. If not, its more of a wallhanger.

 

The deciding factor in what determines a good skirmish piece is the consistency/reliability and availability of magazines. Everything else can be worked on but if the design is dependent on a gas valve disconnector which wears out on each mag and leaks, it doesn't really matter how well it shoots or how durable its innards are. The other factor is functionality in various conditions (sand, rain, mud, hot, cold). A functioning VFC M4 is arguably more skirmishable than a Viper because it has cheap, consistent mags and can cycle better in most temperature ranges in any fire mode in any environment (sand, rain, mud). The durability is probably the 3rd important factor as triggers wear and snap even on the real steel.

 

In the same criteria, the MP5 is a very poor skirmish piece as its mags are unreliable and is plagued with cool down.

 

 

See the only thing I'd disagree with in that whole post is my WOC was accurate out the box, but the stock rubber fails to lift much more than a .25; Mine came pre-fitted with an RA-Tech rubber, which I should have mentioned; Still, that's basically the only non-stock part in the gun.

 

Still, I couldn't agree more with the magazines; I'm using the G&P Pmags in my WOC, and they've been absolutely perfect for almost a year now, so there's definitely a good mag available for the WA system now, unfortunately they're just expensive. With mine, it'll function in all conditions - I've had it dusty, drenched, dirty and everything else in a variety of weather conditions; I do however need to keep the mags under a coat when skirmishing in really cold weather, but I'm willing to live with that to avoid going back to a sewing machine

 

It's a big shame about the Mp5, and I'm hoping the UMP doesn't go the same way, but like you say, it's all dependent on the mags - Let's hope VFC realise that this time!

[rusTORK]

I think people are forgot about what WOC mean. It's stand for "Western Arms Official Custom". That mean, G&P already did upgrade for your. So, it's not proper to compare Basic VFC and G&P WOC.

[WhiteHawksan]

It is, it's price that matters. And it's the state you buy it from the factory, also the designation is a tad out of date, as they were originally WA Customs, but then G&P started making most of it themselves.

[hwagan]

I think people are forgot about what WOC mean. It's stand for "Western Arms Official Custom". That mean, G&P already did upgrade for your. So, it's not proper to compare Basic VFC and G&P WOC.

 

The very first few runs of WOC's were indeed WA customs; They used WA internal parts and magazines, and G&P did the externals. However, later models of the WOC are completely, 100% built by G&P, including the magazines - So it is indeed proper to compare a VFC manufactured GBB rifle with a G&P manufactured GBB rifle. Let's also not forget the VFC uses essentially the same basic WA system with a couple of tweaks, mainly in the BCG and magazine areas if I recall correctly. The system is similar enough that it's entirely fair to directly compare a VFC GBBR with a G&P one.

[icarus3815]

Looking on the bright side, at least the mag is big enough to hold plenty of gas!!

 

Provided it doesnt leak...........

[bankz5152]

Looking on the bright side, at least the mag is big enough to hold plenty of gas!!

 

Provided it doesnt leak...........

 

Just more gas to vent out.

[Stuey]

Yeah despite the presumably huge gas reservoir it still seems to suffer from cooldown on that short burst he fires. Not looking great (I remember the MP5 being the same)...

 

I wonder what CO2 mags would do for this gun?

[FireKnife]

I wonder what CO2 mags would do for this gun?

 

 

 

'FireKnife'

[rusTORK]

No, it's just do the same as it did with SCAR back plate. Plastic and CO2 is really bad combo.

 

Unless your are rich Pinocchio.

[hitmanNo2]

Videos working again in case anyone missed it before.

[WhiteHawksan]

All I am thinking is I hope to buggery they've listened to people who said make it WORK not wall hanger. But alas, I fear that as it comes out, so will a host of problems and I'll cry myself to sleep for a few days.

[T3CH]

Well if I could've gotten on with the ergonomics of the gun I'd be drooling over this, but I didn't when I had the G&G AEG version of this.

 

Glad I'm not even tempted by this tbh if it turned out to be *suitcase* I'd just cry.

[Atsalakotos]

Lets just hope it works well cos I've wanted a GBB UMP for a very long time!

I am still temped to buy the MP5 though even with all these problems....

[kullwarrior]

I think pricing wise it'll be cheaper than MP5 for two reasons.

1) It's polymer not steel

2) most R&D is already learned from G36, and MP5.

 

I expect pricing to be similiar to the G36C.

[Wingmann]

I predict tears.