Staying in the Game

[Tw1tch]

I feel sending someone home off the bat for a hot gun in game is perhaps a bit extreme. It could happen and be a genuine mistake (airsoft kit isn't the most consistent). Definitely a warning and more careful attention to be paid by marshalls to the individual. Allow them to sort the issue, maybe sit out a game, but keep an eye on them at future events too.

[scorch]

Everything is chrono checked and tagged before going out, and everyone is encouraged to come check it again if they tweak anything.

[thatguy404]

Aye but what about gas guns? If it's under the fps Limit in the morning. It may not be in the afternoon, surely a quick " got a gas mate, can you adjust an npas" or words to.that effect

[Wild_XIII]

At my site, if someone fails the chrono we won't kick them off site. We won't tag the gun and won't allow it onto the field until it passes the chrono. If the player has nothing else we can offer a discounted rental or they can get a refund if there's no way they can play. I don't see why you would instantly kick someone out for a hot gun considering variances between chrono's and any other number of things that can cause it to be hot without the player knowing.

 

As far as gun guns go, we will chrono them in the morning and again in the afternoon at lunch if it's a particularly hot day. As far as NPAS/quick change springs etc go, there's no real way to monitor them, but any reports of guns hurting too much will see random chrono checks coming into play.

[Wild_XIII]

Missed the edit time. I meant gas guns, not gun guns. Stupid brain.

[Ryaw]

I deliberately didn't name the site, as it's somewhere I've enjoyed playing a few times before, not massively enjoyed, but enough to want to return at some point and don't fancy getting myself banned for a bit of bad press. However, I still feel it was a very unfair and unjustified decision for 1.5 FPS.

 

The polarstar user in question had played there 3 or 4 times in the past, always passing chrono and never having any issues when checked. On this occasion he was late in arriving and missed the chrono and tagging at the start, assuming that because his gun chrono'd around 330 FPS the last time he used it there and hadn't touched it since, that it would be the same, as it always has been.

 

He feels that he was unfairly targeted by the marshals for having a Polarstar and because he plays a fast and aggressive attack style, which some don't like. He assured me that there were no issues mentioned with his conduct, simply his "hot" gun, which he offered to adjust and submit to further random chrono tests throughout the evening........but was never given the chance. That is what left me disgusted.

 

Strangely, he has since asked if I wanted to play there again in a fortnight and I told him that he was mad for going back after being robbed of his £20 and treated so poorly. He has since deliberated on whether he will or will not be returning there any time soon.

 

 

On a side note, Rich Upton on the M870 owner group on Facebook advised me to put my Breacher's leaky gas tank o-ring in boiling water to restore it to it's original shape and re-grease with silicon, which surprisingly worked after all else failed. So a nice wee tip for leaky gas mags and I'm a lot happier today.

 

My airsoft kit is already very streamlined. Black gear for CQB and Russian Gorka suits (winter and summer) with cheap OD chest rig for woodland, with only my Scorpion Evo AEG and 3 pistols (G17, P226 E2 and MK23 SOCOM) to keep.

I'm considering selling my PPSH-41 and spare MK23 SOCOM, now that they don't get used. I try not to clutter or keep collections of unused items.

[TheFull9]

I *fruitcage* love having heaps of stuff I barely use.  Gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling in my left ventricle every time I swing the cupboard doors open.  Although all the hangers have to be of matching type and spaced precisely equally and that can be a pain when I do actually take stuff in and out occasionally to use, messes with the system.

[paranoiddroid]

I want a geardrobe when I have my own place.

[PureSilver]

At my site, if someone fails the chrono we won't kick them off site. We won't tag the gun and won't allow it onto the field until it passes the chrono. [...] I don't see why you would instantly kick someone out for a hot gun considering variances between chrono's and any other number of things that can cause it to be hot without the player knowing.

 

That's sensible, and the only reason I would kick someone off a site for using a hot gun is...

 

The polarstar user in question had played there 3 or 4 times in the past, always passing chrono and never having any issues when checked. On this occasion he was late in arriving and missed the chrono and tagging at the start, assuming that because his gun chrono'd around 330 FPS the last time he used it there and hadn't touched it since, that it would be the same, as it always has been.

 

...if they had avoided having their gun chronographed before it got onto the field, or if their gun had been chronographed and was now so much hotter than it previously had been that it was undeniably the result of intentional adjustment (i.e. cheating).

 

He feels that he was unfairly targeted by the marshals for having a Polarstar and because he plays a fast and aggressive attack style, which some don't like.

 

Assuming that chronographing is mandatory at your site, as it is or should be at every site, I would say his conduct fell foul more of not having his gun chronographed than of being 1.5FPS over the limit. It is likely an insurance requirement that the guns are chronographed as compliant before every game day; him failing to do so might invalidate their cover. Saying that he was in too much of a hurry to have his gun chronographed for everybody else's safety isn't a very convincing excuse, TBH, regardless of how stable HPA is.

 

For 1.5FPS, I wouldn't have kicked him out myself, but I don't think the decision to kick him out was indefensible.

[T3CH]

 

For 1.5FPS, I wouldn't have kicked him out myself, but I don't think the decision to kick him out was indefensible.

 

Some sites have absolute limits 350fps. FULL STOP. Some have the +/-5% some have +/- 10%.

 

It's about time we had a recognised ENFORCED national limit for cqb and woodland. That stupid *fruitcage* bill in Scotland kind of buggers it up for a UK wide limit (320fps or below for EVERYTHING sniper rifles included), but we should still get a proper power limit in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening..

[Skarclaw]

^Don't like the idea of a "national limit". Let sites choose... why bother interfering? 

 

Also the phrase "herding cats" come to mind.

 

True story from real life:

 

Mate's gun chrono'd at 360 fps. Site limit 350. Site owner; "show of hands who's ok playing with this"

 

Everybody was. And that was that...

 

edit: 

[Dentonboy]

At the start of my last skirmish, my G&P M16 (downgraded on arrival to UK back in the day) was firing at 350fps on the nose.

 

Marshall said to me - 'don't shoot anyone too close please'.

 

Sometimes, common sense, which I took this advise as, should prevail, over booting someone off site and potentially losing custom.

[paranoiddroid]

Any legal limit causes huge issues. When is it enforced? By who? What chrono? What penalty for being over the limit?

 

If I buy a new gUn and import it do I have an issue if it comes in over? Is it a fine? Confiscation? Prison? A loss of license? A Firearms Action Response Team smashing my backdoors in at 3am?

[T3CH]

If we want to be taken seriously we need some kind of regulations. And if sites don't enforce them there are PLENTY of government nutjobs (ESPECIALLY up here in Scotland) that will gladly enforce some draconian limit on everyone. Like 320fps for everything, full stop. Not one fps over. Oh wait that's what they are already doing.

[PureSilver]

A Firearms Action Response Team smashing my backdoors in at 3am?

 

Please tell me this was intentional.

[Skarclaw]

Any legal limit causes huge issues. When is it enforced? By who? What chrono? What penalty for being over the limit?

 

If I buy a new gUn and import it do I have an issue if it comes in over? Is it a fine? Confiscation? Prison? A loss of license? A Firearms Action Response Team smashing my backdoors in at 3am?

 

Well that would be enforced by the police and their chronograph. Probably possession of a firearm. 

 

As for the latter - this is the most concerning thing. Within all rights you would be importing a firearm. 

 

The best case is that it goes through and you get it downgraded and life carries on.

 

Alternatively I could see confiscation and destruction being very possible

 

Prison, loss of license and armed police possible - but I think would depend on circumstances.

 

edit: As far as I'm aware importing / selling a RIF is illegal. Our "exemption" is a "defence to the offense" (granted by the Home Secretary) meaning that if it came to court you could use the defence. In practice it means that if you meet the criteria (lets just say you've put your UKARA number on your package) they won't bother investigating and even if they did, knowing that you met the criteria of a "defence to the offense" means that the CPS would decide it wouldn't be in the public interest to prosecute you. I see Puresilver is reading so I'd be interested to hear his take on this.

[paranoiddroid]

Please tell me this was intentional.

*looks guilty and giggles childishly* yeah.

 

As for the importing I was under the same impression. That it was simply an affirmative defense to prosecution.

 

What I mean is though, would it be a set number with the variananice to cover chrono inaccuracy? Would we have to record chrono readings? Would I have to use a specific brand of chrono calibrated by a particular group for my legally binding reading.

 

What would an over limit RIF actually be legally as currently all we have is supposition that a hot aeg or gbb with full auto capability would be a sec 5 air rifle

 

So many questions with really dangerous potential answers.

[cazboab]

What I mean is though, would it be a set number with the variananice to cover chrono inaccuracy? Would we have to record chrono readings? Would I have to use a specific brand of chrono calibrated by a particular group for my legally binding reading.

Whatever you use is irrelevant, the Forensic science bods use Skan chronos, and will base any prosecution on the reading that gives.

[Im going space]

As above. Skan would be the baseline as thats what the gov use

[paranoiddroid]

But is that enshrined in law or anything?

 

And if I wanted to change anything on a gun i'd have to find a skan somewhere that was accessible to double check I hadn't inadvertently changed the power to beyond the legal limit. That wasn't owned by someone who would prosecute me for it being 1 fps over said limit.

[Stuey]

Whatever you use is irrelevant, the Forensic science bods use Skan chronos, and will base any prosecution on the reading that gives.

 

As they should, as they're an actually reliable instrument for determining the velocity of a moving object, unlike most airsoft chronos. Every site should own one imo.

[Apex]

As they should, as they're an actually reliable instrument for determining the velocity of a moving object, unlike most airsoft chronos. Every site should own one imo.

I don't see how the insurance companys havn't made this part of the T&C's to be insured that it must be something like the Skan....

[jal3]

It's what happens that matters.
If the site owner says you can play with 360fps, then you can do that. The police isn't gonna drop by and arrest you. If he says 330fps...no amount of banging the law would allow you to shoot harder.
You are subject to the field owners first and only (pun intended).
 
Also, don't be over the field limit. Being close without being over takes skill. Back off from it if you're in doubt.
Sending someone home for being 1,5fps over is too harsh, but a punishment was definately in order.
Whenever a field ref allows someone over the limit in, for whatever reason....he's on all the people who took great effort in being under the limit (or took a bigger hit on their fps in order to be sure).
The limit is not the target. It is the limit.

And if it's 350fps +- 10%...well that's a 385fps limit. Some people (>.>) would aim for 380fps then.
 

Some sites have absolute limits 350fps. FULL STOP. Some have the +/-5% some have +/- 10%.

It's about time we had a recognised ENFORCED national limit for cqb and woodland. That stupid *fruitcage* bill in Scotland kind of buggers it up for a UK wide limit (320fps or below for EVERYTHING sniper rifles included), but we should still get a proper power limit in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening..

5J max and then you let the field owners sets whatever local rules they want.

But that would be too simple. Let's call it "non-lethal" and write *fruitcage* bibles on what that means (first step: Ignore the dictionary's definition).

 

Old and bitter

[-Drake-]

I *fruitcage* love having heaps of stuff I barely use.  Gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling in my left ventricle every time I swing the cupboard doors open.  Although all the hangers have to be of matching type and spaced precisely equally and that can be a pain when I do actually take stuff in and out occasionally to use, messes with the system.

 

At one stage my cupboard was so crammed with gear on hangers, that it began to buckle and deform like it had some how created its own black hole...

 

=/ 

[Lone_Bullet]

CKinnerly, in a friendly way, I suppose you live alone, then?

The missus / girlfriend / partner generally don't like loads of airsoft gear laying around, or even in a cupboard! Out of sight is JUST bareable for them .

In the garage, or attic... womewhere dark, smelly and dusty where they don't like to come, generally.