uscmCorps Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 It's not too hard to enforce certain criteria of copyrights in HK so long as the legal team have a good understanding of the nuances to the HK legal system. It's generally far more difficult in mainland China itself. Link to post Share on other sites
tquilha Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Thinking about Cybergun's actions so far: They're loosing money, they are considered by airsofters in general (their customer base) as the Devil incarnate (or something worse) and their solution is to "toughen up", and alienate the airsoft community even further... I think this will work. For us... Link to post Share on other sites
paranoiddroid Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 And that Tommy gun might not have hideous markings! Seriously, how do ciberfail have trademarks to a gun made in 1917? Because Cybergun own the license for the auto ordanance company trademarks. In real steel they are owned by Kahr firearms the same company that used to import and own the rights to desert eagles in the usa. Anyone can produce a thompson but using trademarks is awkward because the different companies who made them even if they are dead companies the trademarks are worth allot It's the same reason that you can't just produce motorbikes using the the excelsior name and badge withought buying the rights. It's why Ariel started with buying the rights to to the motorcycle company. You could license the rights from colt or West hurley or even whoever owns the rights for BSA and produce a traded gun easily enough. Thompson trades are messy because of the amount of companies who have owned or licensed them over the years. Link to post Share on other sites
tquilha Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 So, WE makes an M1 with no trades (and your neighborhood engraver does a nice job). Sorted. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Eww WE, I'm waiting for the KA 28, I'd be perfectly happy with no markings whatsoever. Not least because I don't want cibergun to have any money whatsoever, and secondly because I'm not re-enactor/milsim/operator enough to really care. -snip- Well gak this entire legislative nightmare Link to post Share on other sites
paranoiddroid Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 To be fair I can understand why the rules are as they are because in the case of Iconic companies it means that creditors at a bankruptcy winding up actually see something of what they are owed when the rights get sold. Which is what will happen when colt dies soon. The only issue with the system is unscrupulous bastards can trade on an existing name and the expectations of the public by buying weight and gravitas. For an example of this see Armalite which has no actual link to the original designer of the AR10 and it's derivitives and no actual link to the late great Stoner but still use the public perception of them being the original. Springfield Armouries is an even more *fruitcage* devious one, they bought the rights after the us gov shut down their government weapons development company down and they use their ownership to force noone else to sell an M14 called an m14nd they use and overplay their 1911's as G.I guns. It's even funner when you realise their m14's are made completely differently to the real Issue guns and people skip straight past more accurate versions because they don't have the 'right' logo. Trademark use and purchase can do dodgy things to industries to the point it's better to buy a dead companies pedigree than work hard at establishing your brand. Link to post Share on other sites
Safeword Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 They wont win me over by the lame stuff they keep posting on facebook these days https://www.facebook.com/cybergun Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Sadly Cybergun has dug in deep. Retailers are the primary way to boycott these companies but refusing to sell CG guns would also hurt them quite bad. Considering how tough the competition between retailers is, there no room to "do the right thing" If my company had the $$$ I'd be interested in some of these licenses. I'd focus on accurate trades and large volumes with only a single digit cut with the deal offered only to those matching a standard/quality worthy of the name. I'm worried there will be an auction when these licenses are sold, those tend to raise prices bit over what I'd be willing to pay. Nonetheless, I'l be there when it happens. Link to post Share on other sites
NeoVeNoM Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 So long time since we last discussed here about counterfeists and fake replicas. You know, those replicas made from the moulds you have developped and paid yourself and carefully designed with authentic arms manufacturers... Stay tuned and warm up the pop corn , we will bring back the topic in a few. now that is utter BS on their FB. What it actually says is, "we buy cheap chinese airsoft guns, slap ugly trades on them and sell them at a premium prices." Link to post Share on other sites
-Drake- Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Their Facebook page is hilarious. Link to post Share on other sites
jkpics Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Is that FB page real? why does cybergun have a 13 year old running it? Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Katotaka, on 05 Jun 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:AFAIK, IP related law in the States REQUIRES IP holder / owner to "attack" could-be-infringing parties, in order to stay being the owner of his own IP. not true. one does not lose their ip by not acting on it. you can let it slide for 400 years and then one day decide you want to enforce it. as long as you own the rights to it, and they haven't lapsed, it is your discretion when and how to use it. the problem with rebranders/ip licensees like cybergun, asg, umarex et al is that their trades are typically garbage. they are never accurate and their work is subcontracted. the customer is left to chase down whoever made the product to get support for it, since all those rebranders have a policy of "never deal with the customer, hide behind unresponsive resellers and ignore all accountability". that's why they are hurting. because people figured out the jig. it just makes sense to buy direct and bypass them. ironically enough, you still get better trades on a bootleg product than a licensed one. off the top of me head, VFC HK417. Asian version has correct trades. umarex "licensed" version has *suitcase* trades where half the trades literally say LICENSED BY UMAREX BECAUSE WE ARE SO COOL. they can all get *fruitcage*ed. they cant enforce anything because their products are *suitcase*. they know it but instead of fixing that, they want to corner the market so only their products are available. then people will have no choice but to buy their *suitcase*. or so they think Link to post Share on other sites
DrAlexanderTobacco Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Is that FB page real? why does cybergun have a 13 year old running it? A 13 year old with work for sweets and RIFs, it's not like Cybergun can actually pay any of their staff Link to post Share on other sites
Alias1983 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Sadly, it's never that simple. Take KAC for example. They finally want a slice of the Airsoft pie but do not allow an exclusive license holder and instead licenses to anyone willing to pay a fee. What happens is that KAC licensed Airsoft companies are able to put out anywhere between high grade to sub par grade products, with the assumption that anything that's *suitcase* will sort itself out in the market via the consumers not buying it. Logically it makes sense but it can also have negative affects on their brand. Licensing does give KAC some money for the parties willing to pay for the license (which is good) but because they don't allow license exclusivity, any infringement is generally unenforceable in countries like Hong Kong. Many smaller Airsoft manufacturers realize this and basically say screw it, do it without licensing. That can be a turn off to many prospective manufacturers. It's a very difficult pro/con balancing act. I have no love for either Cybergun or Umarex, but between the two, Umarex to me seems to be partnering up more with Airsoft companies that put out quality product. Cybergun has thus far seemed by and large far less discriminating. It could be argued that PTS is doing something similar, acquiring exclusive licenses. But I think most people will agree that PTS seems to strive to produce what PTS considers to be a quality product. I will never buy a umarex product, its cg v2. Link to post Share on other sites
Katotaka Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 not true. one does not lose their ip by not acting on it. you can let it slide for 400 years and then one day decide you want to enforce it. as long as you own the rights to it, and they haven't lapsed, it is your discretion when and how to use it. the problem with rebranders/ip licensees like cybergun, asg, umarex et al is that their trades are typically garbage. they are never accurate and their work is subcontracted. the customer is left to chase down whoever made the product to get support for it, since all those rebranders have a policy of "never deal with the customer, hide behind unresponsive resellers and ignore all accountability". that's why they are hurting. because people figured out the jig. it just makes sense to buy direct and bypass them. ironically enough, you still get better trades on a bootleg product than a licensed one. off the top of me head, VFC HK417. Asian version has correct trades. umarex "licensed" version has *suitcase* trades where half the trades literally say LICENSED BY UMAREX BECAUSE WE ARE SO COOL. they can all get *fruitcage*ed. they cant enforce anything because their products are *suitcase*. they know it but instead of fixing that, they want to corner the market so only their products are available. then people will have no choice but to buy their *suitcase*. or so they think Well maybe just "utility patents" but not all IP-related things. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/28/magpul-sues-another-magazine-manufacturer-time-elite-tactical-systems/ Magpul: The PMag has several areas of it's geometry and design that took many years of our own testing and documenting. These areas of geometry and design have been granted utility patents. Magpul has to defend the patent or lose the protection offered from the patent. In the case of these patents, we have successfully defended them in court four other times this year. The whole story is kinda interesting, no suing as a result, ETS modified the design of the follower but still works fine. Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Well maybe just "utility patents" but not all IP-related things. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/28/magpul-sues-another-magazine-manufacturer-time-elite-tactical-systems/ The whole story is kinda interesting, no suing as a result, ETS modified the design of the follower but still works fine. Its like what glock does.. they sue for likeness.. like magpul is doing here. Therefore the burden is on them to prove the other party did in fact infringe the actual patent. Its a case of likeness and that's why its different, vs a clear cut case of infringement that is defined. Very murky, these go case by case Link to post Share on other sites
BioRage Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Can't edit OP: Cybergun now has the rights to GLOCK. Best to use a translator. http://www.zonebourse.com/CYBERGUN-16268064/actualite/CYBERGUN--Lancement-de769partement-des-marche769s-militaires-et-signature-licence-militaire-G-21184565/ Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Separate thread http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/215514-cybergun-licensing-glocks-mle-only/ Link to post Share on other sites
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