Jin15 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I got a PM this morning asking me what my feelings were on a personal level about the three gas blowback M4s currently on the market. And if I was to compare them and choose one, which would I choose. Having owned a WA M4 and a WE M4, here is my response to the great "What am best GBB rifle!?" question... So far, despite the initial problems I've had with the WE, if I was to choose 1 of the 3 GBB rifles on the market I'd go with the WE. It has not been problem free since I got it, but the problems I've experienced have been the same or less severe than the WA had. The bolt catch breaking was somewhat expected and I'll be getting an all steel replacement from Airsoft Buddy as soon as their production is complete. And the magazine valve issue, well, it's working fine for now and magazine valves are fairly cheap to replace if it does go out permanently. Besides, WE M4 mags are $30 each and aside from the slightly wonky fill valve they are just infinitely nicer than the $115 each WA or Inokatsu M4 mags. WE M4 mags really feel like AEG mags and weigh less than a fully loaded hi-cap. They feel durable and you feel like you could really bang them around without worrying about breakage... in other words, you could treat them like AEG mags on the field. The WA/Inokatsu mags on the other hand are giant heavy chunks of pot metal that are fragile as hell, ridiculously expensive, and so heavy it would get uncomfortable carrying more than 2 spares onto the field. With the WE mags you could carry as many mags as you would normally carry in AEG mags and not feel weighed down by them. Externally the construction of the WE M4 is a helluva lot nicer than the WA M4 and at a price that's about 1/3 that of the high end Inokatsu. Internally speaking I think the WE has a much better design as well. The brass tube that runs through the bolt system means that the BBs are fed directly from the mag into the narrow tube and into the hopup. Meaning there are no opportunities for jams that are so common with with the WA M4. I think in the long run the WE will prove to be a vastly more reliable and skirmishable weapon that the WA or Inokatsu options due to it's superior internal system. Also, the internals of the WE are much larger and fewer in number than the WA or Inokatsu systems. Bigger stronger parts and a lot less of them means there are less things that can go wrong in the long run. The hopup system for the WE M4 is much better designed that the other GBB M4 options as well. Very simple, just a few big solid chunks of brass. Nothing to break, no small parts or o-rings to fiddle with. Taking apart and putting back together the hopup properly on the WA M4 is nothing short of a nightmare that will consume hours of your life and if you don't do it absolutely perfectly the gun will do nothing but jam when you try to fire it. Not to mention that the WA M4 needs a new hopup and inner barrel right out of the box to be even semi-reliable (I recommend the PGC hopup & standard AEG inner barrel)... and even then it won't shoot 1/5th as reliably as the WE M4. So how do I feel about the three gas blowback M4s currently on the market? 1) The WA is incredibly overpriced and ridiculously unreliable (an Alpha release pretty much). The mags are insanely priced and very poorly made as well. 2) The Inokatsu is just insanely over priced and based on WA's severely flawed internal design. It uses the same insanely priced and poorly made mags. 3) The WE M4 has a few little issues, but is very reasonably priced and the internal design is far superior to the other GBB M4s on the market. The only things that could really use improvement are the bolt catch (which is already being done) and the magazine fill valves. The magazines are very reasonably priced and IMHO the best gas blowback mags I've ever seen due to their extremely light weight and solid construction. If I was to choose to buy another GBB M4 right now, I'd buy a WE hands down. On a side note, the firing pin issues that I mentioned only happened a few times when I racked the charging handle and started shooting. If you're doing tactical reloads (changing mags before the current one is empty) or starting firing from inserting a fresh mag and pressing the bolt catch after finishing the previous mag you should not have this problem. So I wouldn't be too worried about it happening in the field. And yes, I have thoroughly lubed the firing pin assembly. t_hum, I appreciate your offer of milling a new bolt catch (very nice offer indeed!) but since I'm not so good with precise dimensions and the WE M4 bolt catch is rather complicated I think I'll just wait for Airsoft Buddy to send me a new one. My gun will still shoot with the bolt catch broken, so it's not like it's totally broken down, I just don't get the bolt locking back when the mag is empty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Good to hear its not totally out of commission. If you need any emergency parts in the future just send me a PM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Aside from the lower velocity and no CQB barrel included, does anyone know anything different for the export version WGC carries? I dont want to end up buying it from them and find out it is significantly different or hindered in some way. Is it just a better idea to buy it from AB? I also meant to ask, as Im pretty sure it is and I just want to check, when the selector switch is moved from safe, semi, and auto, does the indicator on the right hand side move along with it like RS? Thanks again! Im excited to hear more. Edited November 13, 2008 by Kai_Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupus78 Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Okeydokey... I've changed the inner barrel into the CQB barrel. The process was (as Jin told) very easy. The hopup mechanism is incredibly simple and the adjustment seems really precise. There's practically no change it will turn by itself in use. Finally opening the whole thing I got it moving. It had just been screwed too tight. The ring moves on threads back and forth on the brass tube. It was stuck on back position in my case (minimum hop). Turning clockwise it will go forward and increase the hopup. I also added some teflon tape around the inner barrel so it would stay tight inside the outer barrel. It seems rather solid now. I also took some detailed pictures of the whole process of disassembly (and hopup rubber). After that I also took pictures of it in CQB setup. I'll upload all of them tomorrow (now I'm going to sleep...). The results were (with .20g BB): HFC 134a: 113, 103, 110, 108, 107, 105 and 103 m/s APS3 Gas: 141, 142, 140, 140, 139, 140, 140, 139, 140 m/s OUCH! So only about a 10m/s drop when I changed the CQB barrel (from 2,25 joules to 2 joules). Still WAY too powerful when using the Cybergun APS3 gas. Which is about equal to Green Gas. Good thing is that with the APS3 the results were EXTREMELY consistent. With 134a there was that one drop to 103. Otherwise it was really consistent too. But they were the first shots I fired after assembling the weapon back together. Airsoft Buddy: We REALLY need some ways/parts to drop the velocity (I would need a further 15m/s drop). Maybe a tighter nozzle? Edited November 13, 2008 by Lupus78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poison123 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Lupus can you give the lengths of the two barrels please? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carsten Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 thx Lupus.. which temerature (!) ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Involved6 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I've been keeping up with this thread pretty well, but cannot remember, nor can I find an answer to the question about how easy it would be to turn this weapon into a sniper platform? Besides sheer feasibility, is the gas system precise enough to rely upon for long distance shots? I was going to get my local miller to make some modifications to a Madbull 470 I was going to buy on the cheap, but if this is easy, I might as well save myself some cash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I've been keeping up with this thread pretty well, but cannot remember, nor can I find an answer to the question about how easy it would be to turn this weapon into a sniper platform? Besides sheer feasibility, is the gas system precise enough to rely upon for long distance shots? I was going to get my local miller to make some modifications to a Madbull 470 I was going to buy on the cheap, but if this is easy, I might as well save myself some cash. Depending on the arrival of aftermarket parts, installing a longer barrel should be no harder than doing it to your old AEG. As for performance, I can't say anything since I have no experience. I really hope WE sells the peices, or at least sells spare uppers to facilitate upper-swapping. If the FPS-adjustment peices are sold as well, it'll be easy to use one lower for both longer range and CQB, which would truly be my ideal setup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Involved6 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) I really hope WE sells the peices, or at least sells spare uppers to facilitate upper-swapping. Hehe upper-swapping... I feel like we're talking about my RS Bushamster M4 Civvy. Awesome. And that's good to hear. I still might get the 470, if I can talk him down to below $50, because hey, what have I got to lose? But it's good to see that something better may be on its way. Thanks! Edited November 13, 2008 by Involved6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Hey guys going to do a video review on this i have not read the 43 pages of information on this Can someone summarise the information for me ? Also what should i review any specifics i should look at ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupus78 Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 thx Lupus.. which temerature (!) ? 21 degrees Celsius. Poison123: I didn't measure. D'oh! G'night people... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yehaw Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) some more pics of broken parts .. (wasn't me) anyway .. i'm buying this thing as soon as i sold my WA M4 (if anyone wants to buy my WA CQB-R .. i'm selling it for a good price ;-) ) Edited November 13, 2008 by yehaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carsten Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Does a RS- charging handle fit? And.. how the... can it brake?! edit: it seems so: http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02430.JPG and.. a rs bolt stop costs 20€ Edited November 13, 2008 by Carsten Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Titanium416 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Does a RS- charging handle fit? edit: and.. how the... can it brake?! edit²: it seems so: http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02430.JPG I don't think that pic is from a WE M4 but a WA M4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carsten Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 would be interesting to know.. a RS charging handle costs about 20$ too.. in US.. here in GER i found one for 60eur.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yehaw Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Does a RS- charging handle fit? edit: and.. how the... can it brake?! edit²: it seems so: http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02430.JPG I don't think that pic is from a WE M4 but a WA M4. thats a picture of real steel parts .. Edited November 13, 2008 by yehaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carsten Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I'm confused .. why do you posted it then..? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yehaw Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) misunderstanding here i think ;-) I thought Titanium416 was thinking that your link / picture ( http://www.pof-usa.com/DSC02430.JPG ) shows a Western Arms .. my pictures are indeed showing WE parts. Edited November 13, 2008 by yehaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carsten Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 ahh....ahh! yes.. my picture shows RS M4 parts.. I think the charging handle is the same as in/on the WE M4.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Titanium416 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 ahh....ahh! yes.. my picture shows RS M4 parts.. I think the charging handle is the same as in/on the WE M4.. I'm still trying to figure out if the broken charging handle is from a WE or WA and if it is from the WE where did he get the pic from and what caused the issue... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yehaw Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) I'm still trying to figure out if the broken charging handle is from a WE or WA and if it is from the WE where did he get the pic from and what caused the issue... the WA charging handle looks different .. it doesn't have these two "guidance rails". I don't know what caused it to break, sorry. Just wanted to share the pictures which i found on some taiwanese forums. Edited November 13, 2008 by yehaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mirska Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Im suspecting that pic is taken before WE addressed the issue of the weak charging handle that was pointed out by AB. On a prototype gun too if i recall correctly. Edited November 13, 2008 by Mirska Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Id be surprised if they fixed the problem and got the new versions on the guns that a few guys around here have already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 yehaw can you clarify the origin of these photos? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nicklas Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I've passed the problem happened at Taiwan to WE last night. They know few of demo guns at Taiwan have "charging handle" problem. So they've already fixed that problem and reinforced it already. My guess is that the broken charging handle is from one of the demo guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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