Horsem4n Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 i think he means that, as a scrimmager's rifle, its a better gun because it sounds like it may have the same shooting features, the gearbox can be switched out for different power levels (for around the same price as a PTW cylinder), and normal AEGs can be made to shoot more accurately at a greater range than PTWs limited upgradeability, all along with cheap mags. Link to post Share on other sites
Naveronski Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I am really curious to see what actually happens with the gas internals. I will be very impressed if the quality and usability is on par with the expectations. Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 .. whose expectations I for one don't hold too much hope for a gas system that's as reliable in all seasons as the electric gearbox. I suppose that might be partly the point. Gas in summer for sound and feel and electric when it gets too cold to work properly Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 could be CO2 capulets in the foregrip? That would allow for much greater sustainability, if you could just hot swap them out, or switch it for an external line. Just throwing out an idea here. But we'll see when the GBB is available. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 .. whose expectations I for one don't hold too much hope for a gas system that's as reliable in all seasons as the electric gearbox. I suppose that might be partly the point. Gas in summer for sound and feel and electric when it gets too cold to work properly he means, the gun as a whole, not just the GBB parts. i expect alot from them because its an american company that has a passion for their guns. their Galils are top notch (given they dont use the right mags, too keep the use cost down) and i expect the same for the TAR 21. Link to post Share on other sites
Mig1 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Guy, if you are still reading the thread, can you tell us if it still has an AK style hop up like the old prototype picture showed? Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 he means, the gun as a whole, not just the GBB parts. i expect alot from them because its an american company that has a passion for their guns. their Galils are top notch (given they dont use the right mags, too keep the use cost down) and i expect the same for the TAR 21. Not only is it an American Company, but the owner of the company is ex-IDF. You know he doesn't want to produce something half-assed and to have to hear about it later from fellow Israelis. As for the Galils, I recently bought a couple of the King Arms Galil midcap mags to try in my TSI Galils, and they fit fine (though a bit tight at first, it was fine after working it in and out a few times). Haven't had a chance to test and see if they fed yet. Will be doing that this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
Mig1 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I've got to admit, if the TSI version has an AK hop up and standardish V3 gearbox instead of some polycarb monstrosity and M4 style hop up then the TSI version will definately be my choice over the Ares version. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 i dont think it will have an AK hop up, i think they may use something along the lines of an AUG hop, which i hope for since it is one of the best types. Link to post Share on other sites
TSI Armories Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 The hop up chamber is a standard AK unit, but the adjustment is done externally. Link to post Share on other sites
thartwig Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 When you say externally do you mean like the old Mp5 hop (except with an AK hop of course)? Link to post Share on other sites
The_AUGfather Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I am excited to hear this update from TSI! I would buy the gun & GBB internals IF AND ONLY IF it were WA-M4 mag compatible with the bolt-stop function, i.e. "gas in mag". I would rather have 4-to-8 .5kg mags than an external rig, any day. A number of firms (including RA-Tech) are coming out with $30-$40 WA-compatible mags... that accept Propane AND co2. I don't understand why we would crawl back two decades in innovation for a 21st-century polymer assault rifle. I have been looking forward to a Tavor-21 for a long time, but it took so long to break through, that RA-tech has stolen my interest with their upgrades & innovations (NPAS) in the Magna BB system (WA M4). Unless TSI can prove that their Tavor GBB will perform on-par-per-dollar with the Magna system, I wouldnt buy. But at least TSI is ahead of ARES in my books. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't understand why we would crawl back two decades in innovation for a 21st-century polymer assault rifle. because it works better. Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't understand why we would crawl back two decades in innovation for a 21st-century polymer assault rifle. Because it works better, it has been explained a dozen times. In all honesty going to GIM systems is crawling back through atleast a decade and a half of AEG development, so why don't we just stick with developeing AEG BB if we are following that logic. Why would I want to deal with cooldown issues, limited mag capacity, multiple valves that break often, overly expensive mags (BTW I have yet to spend more than $10 on any mag for my SP), and limited climate playability. If GIM were the solution why wouldn't companies who have been around for a while producing GIM rifles have done better (Hudson, LAgunshop, Maruzen, Marushin, ect)? If you just can't get over carrying an external rig stick to AEGs, GIM just can't compete with external gas for GBB preformance. Link to post Share on other sites
black shot Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Personally I still think gas in gun has great potential so I happily look forward to TSI's gas tavor. If a GIG engineered properly you could have most of the advantages of an external system without the "pesky" air line that people always complain about. The only real problem that I could foresee people complaining about is gas tank size but this could probably be solved if a gun was built from the ground up to be GIG and had a custom tank that took up all of the gun's internal real estate. Also, TSI type of gas are you leaning towards? Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 All systems have great potential it's just that the only one which has best been utilized to date is external gas. GIM and GIG systems can be made to work, well, but each has potential difficulties that are solved through externally sourced gas. Of the two choices GIG or GIM, I would choose GIG as that can easily be modded to work with external gas, and if it works well by itself, it could still use cheap mags. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would buy the gun & GBB internals IF AND ONLY IF it were WA-M4 mag compatible with the bolt-stop function, i.e. "gas in mag". Then it sounds like you won't be buying one. Making demands of a airsoft manufacturer won't get you far, and from the sounds of it, they've already decided on what type of gas system is going in the gun. If they're as far along in the gun's production as it sounds like they are, all this debate (while interesting) is probably not going to affect that which is ultimately going in the gun. Personally, I'm buying this for its AEG features. The fact that it has the capability to switch to a gas system isn't a deal breaker for me. I'm buying it based purely on its capabilities as an AEG. But that's me. There's a lot of opinions in this thread, and it's generally obvious that what works for one person may not be acceptable for another. We just gotta acknowledge those difference in opinions as a good reason why many airsoft companies, including the niche ones, still have business, and accept that no matter what comes out not everyone will be 100% satisfied. But that's airsoft for ya. Instead of all this conjecture, it may be more prudent to sit back and wait to see what TSI has in store for us. Link to post Share on other sites
Mig1 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Indeed. I would also add that in the real market place the AEG version will in all likelihood outsell the GBB version by a large margin. The all-season reliability, lower total cost of ownership, and simplicity of the AEG system vs all gas powered system is hard to argue with. Which is why I'll be getting the AEG version. I'll probably get two gearboxes, one for CQB/indoor games, one for longer ranges and swap as needed. I've owned Kokusai, JAC, and SP classics. Including a rare JAC GBB M16A2 carbine (GIM). And I can tell you, until something major changes in the technology, I'll be sticking with AEGs for my skirmish guns. Link to post Share on other sites
ultimentra Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Any updates on this gun? I am interested. Does the MARS sight come with the gun? And does it have the built in tactical laser like the real one? Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Any updates on this gun? I am interested. Does the MARS sight come with the gun? And does it have the built in tactical laser like the real one? Last time I discussed this with TSI, their TAVOR will not come with a MARS sight by default, only iron sights. However, they do offer a REAL MARS sight available separately, and a third party are making a much more affordable replica MARS sight that TSI will be offering separately as well. Don't recall if the replica will have a tactical laser like the real one ... my guessing is that it does. Link to post Share on other sites
aaron2310 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Just a quick Q about price. How much are we looking at? Link to post Share on other sites
kodiak22 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Just a quick Q about price. How much are we looking at? i think they said probably not more then $600. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 they promised us not to go over 600 and they feel confident that it will still be lower than that. Link to post Share on other sites
aaron2310 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Fantastic! Can't wait for this. Looking like it'll be my first major expensive AEG and my first import. Eagerly awaiting more developments. Link to post Share on other sites
TSI Armories Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Gentleman, for those of you who are wondering how the external hop up adjustment works in our TAR: We are utilizing the barrel lock down feature in the real gun ( a screw located on the right receiver side below the secondary optics mount) together with a patented metal link to the hop up. Sort of a rack and pinion system for those who know cars. For those of you who are on the pre-order list - we are still on schedule for an April 30th release. An email will go out with pics, pricing options and technical specs. 100 units will be pre-sold directly, with the rest of the production run going to our distributors. The rest of you will have to wait until it hits the retailers...in a few months Link to post Share on other sites
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