AGM Gas-Blowback M4

[Chris North]

Note how the video from crw says that the barrel is 340mm long; It';s a full-length one.

 

So, it should simply be a case of cutting the inner down to reduce to power. Though, I'm not sure I'd want to do that, as It'd reduce power at expense of gas efficiency, which, for a rifle I'd use as a primary, isn't a great thing.

 

Unless I'm mistaken and the M4 doesn't use WA's usual gas system, cutting down the barrel should only reduce efficiency in the sense that the gun will still use the same amount of gas to fire but less of it is being put to good use propelling the BB out the barrel.

 

 

[KWP]

What mods? The current stock WE has steel bolt carrier, Steel Bolt catch, steel trigger internals, steel valve and reinforced charging handle- none of which you'll find on the AGM. I've not made a single mod to my WE apart from the steel charging handle which I didn't really need (I got it for authenticity). My WE M4 has performed flawless after thousands of rounds and rough usage.

 

The US army has obtained funding approval for purchase of WE M4 GBB CO2 rifles for training. How is the AGM a better technical choice?????

The AGM is targeting a different market segment and doesn't claim to be comparable with any of the other brands.

I wonder why people still do compare. I think they are either ###### about why they payed so much more for their WA or WE system or they are afraid of loosing business.

 

Btw, the U.S. Armed Forces try and purchase a lot of stuff. They have and had Paintball markers, RAMs, RAPs, AEGs (e.g. CA and Systema) in their arsenal. They might have added the WE to that gaudy bunch, so what? And without implying anything specific, but we all know the U.S. Armed Forces often goes for the lowest bidder.

[bbstriker]

Yep- lowest bidder. But come on- they tested and trialed the WE AWSS M4 during training. If you had one of these you'd know why they selected it- especially since the stock WE M4 is now Propane and CO2 ready in addition to steel internals.

 

Clearly US Special Forces agreed to this pic http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...t&p=2097214

 

Yes, the AGM is aimed at the low end but I fear it'll begin to fall apart in the summer months. The WE AWSS is I believe the 'Systema' of GBB M4s but perhaps it's more interesting for the more technically skilled airsofters to build up their bargain AGM M4.

 

I also think that if anyone believes that paying $178 for an AGM and then upgrading it to the WE standard hoping to come in at (or below) $350 that you would pay for a stock WE (with steel internals and Propane & CO2 ready) is in for a big disappointment.

 

When you add up the cost of adding Steel bolt carrier, Steel gas nozzle, Steel Bolt catch, CO2 conversion set, it will come out at much much more than $172 -that's the difference between the AGM and WE. G&Ps WA Version is an all reinforced version but look at the sky high price.

 

What I will say after having had a loan WA and currently owning a WE is that the bolt carrier on the WA is more realistic lookng. If I could not afford $350- I would certainly buy the WA based AGM and then slowly upgrade when I could afford to. The WA M4 GBB is still a great rifle and a lot of fun. I know that part of the fun in our sport is to upgrade test and tune- a more satisfying experience

[renegadecow]

G&Ps WA Version is an all reinforced version but look at the sky high price.

At roughly only $100 more expensive than a WE, the G&P hardly constitutes as sky-high. You might be mistaking it for the Inokatsu.

[Mig1]

G&P M4s run $500-$650 at Red Wolf.

 

 

[Hite]

Personally I want a GBB that will last most of the year for a good price. If that means I have shell out for a WE then fine. But if the AGM can be modded to perform the same, then why not go for that, surely, it wont be much more it shouldn't be that much more than buying a WE. But if someone can prove me otherwise please go for it, as I still fancy the WE, simply due to its out of the box reliability, and ability to work in next to freezing temps with no mods. And personally I prefer greater gas efficiency to a more realistic bolt function. But the AGM is $125, that is an epic price...

 

HiTE

[tinydata]

I don't think the AGM will be that bad. From the videos on youtube you can see that the full auto is pretty impressive and that the action is smooth

 

I had a first generation Echo 1 M4 and it was one of the most amazing guns I ever owned- give these manufacturers a chance!

 

[tinydata]

woops double post

[snorkelman]

The biggest problems with it are likely to be gas consumption and component failure ie its not that it wont work or sound any less impressive in demo videos.

 

Its a question of how long its going to work in stock form (poor casting of internal parts or materials to soft for the job) and how much gas it unneccessarily spews out each shot - thanks to any less than optimal seals or poorer tolerances between components over and above those of the original design.

 

think GHK AK (albeit at a price point where those issues are a lot more easily digestable than what GHK are asking for that).

 

A It likely wont cost a lot to source cheap standard spares for it (though if those are breaking as soon as you look at them you run risk of repeating the problem with a regularity that you might grow bored with)

 

B - you have access to higher end spares for it - either using upgrade parts for WA if it is sufficiently compatible, or upgrade parts released specifically for it (if its sufficiently different to make that required) Depending on how many parts need changed to iron out any off the shelf weaknesses it ships with then you might hit the price of an off the shelf WA or G&P etc, on other had it might only need a part or two to shake out the weak points.

 

you pays your 123 dollars plus shipping and takes your chance, or you waits a month or two to see where any common problems lie, and factor cost of fixing those into your budget

 

Personally I've no problem with big brass internal chamber as per the WE etc - I've already got plenty Escort guns that 'suffer' from that and it doesnt bother me at all. With the bugs shaken out the WE might well prove the more robust out of the box design versus the WA derivatives.

 

But if Im going to put up with the hassles of a gas in mag gun (especially when it comes to another Armalite) then it needs to bring something to the party that that the Escort and JAC ones I already own dont, and in this case its the more realistic internals. If the only gas in mag armalite design on market was the WE I simply wouldn't have any use for it no matter how robust it was.

[tinydata]

well I guess we'll have to wait for a review

 

does anyone in HK have one of these yet? I'd like to see firsthand opinions on this rifle.

[frogfish]

Clearly US Special Forces agreed to this pic http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...t&p=2097214

 

 

Stop now, seriously. Stealthbomber has gotten on you twice for this.

 

Your are not going about this the right way. The military does lots of things and so do it's personnel. Unless you have located a request for proposal, trial results, and a completed contract you are wrong, no matter what pictures you show us, unless they happen to be JPGs of the prior mentioned documents.

 

[bbstriker]

At roughly only $100 more expensive than a WE, the G&P hardly constitutes as sky-high. You might be mistaking it for the Inokatsu.

Yes, I think you're right- I did have the Inokatsu in mind.

[bbstriker]

Stop now, seriously. Stealthbomber has gotten on you twice for this.

 

Your are not going about this the right way. The military does lots of things and so do it's personnel. Unless you have located a request for proposal, trial results, and a completed contract you are wrong, no matter what pictures you show us, unless they happen to be JPGs of the prior mentioned documents.

I think it's you that's not going about this the right way. Stealth bomber has (appropriately!) corrected a rather overly robust response I posted to someone else- this issue was not the subject but the tone and language I used to make a point. I agree with stealth bombers comments on my post the other day- amusing way he went about it but I agree and take on board his message. No arguments there. Good moderating.

 

As for the US Army using the WE you are entitled to your opinion and I and the rest of us are entitled to provide supporting information/evidence about WE's success in getting a small part US army SF to look at, test and adopt WE M4 GBB as part of its training kit. You are of of course entitled to deny that men landed on the moon but it still does not alter the fact that it happened. The US Rangers have been using Airsoft weapons for training for several years so looking at WE is nothing out of normal.

 

You are making more of this than it perhaps deserves. The simple fact is the the US rangers have looked at the WE, have tested it and used it during exercises. They have approved it for use and obtained funding for the WE M4 GBB AWSS. Believe it or not. The WA or WA derivative/copy like AGM has not had a look in. In any case what procurement process the US army uses is irrelevant and I imagine most of us are not too interested in context of this thread.

 

I think WA kick-started the mass M4 GBB and it's clones provide a great entry for those of us on a low budget. However WE has set the standard that the AGM M4 GBB and other WA clones will inevitably be compared against. One of the proofs of standard setting is that US special forces clearly like the WE and plan to procure it- I think says something. As a WE operater I know what they saw in it - apart from the price

[muckymick]

bbstriker what is your point exactly,are you trying to say WE make the best m4 gbb,WE make the best price m4 gbb or that you are a WE fan boy and you thought you would come bash AGM/WA m4 in this thread.

As with all new or clone weapons we will have to see how it turn's out and it does not matter to me that the us army or however is or is not trialing any thing as that just mean's that they got a good price from that manufacturer/ retailer rather than this is the best m4 gbb because the us army use it for training so please go back to the WE thread and bang on about it their.

[frogfish]

Muckymick, head on, there is no reason for this discussion here, and there is no need to bash the AGM m4 yet.

 

 

 

[tinydata]

Muckymick, head on, there is no reason for this discussion here, and there is no need to bash the AGM m4 yet.

 

Let's wait and see. I, for one, am rather optimistic about this new GBBr. And if I remember correctly, the WE was far from perfect when it came out. Give this one a chance.

[muckymick]

Muckymick, head on, there is no reason for this discussion here, and there is no need to bash the AGM m4 yet.

 

I liked your last post better and i'm not bashing the AGM m4 i'm just waiting for mine to arrive so i can give an honest reveiw on how good or bad these turn out to be ,it's just annoying when i check new post's and their from a WE fan boy bragging about something that has no real purpose in this thread.

 

people are comparing price between all the current m4 and the agm is the cheapest but i think we could be suprise at how well these turn out to be.

Just because it is a lot cheaper than the m4 gbb it's cloned from does not mean that it will be hopless as the chinese will proberly produce far more of these than WA so the unit cost will be far cheaper and manufacturing/labour will cost less, their would appear to have been no development cost so all of these saving means they may have produced a good m4 gbb and fixed some of the wa m4 problems .

[poison123]

I think it's you that's not going about this the right way. Stealth bomber has (appropriately!) corrected a rather overly robust response I posted to someone else- this issue was not the subject but the tone and language I used to make a point. I agree with stealth bombers comments on my post the other day- amusing way he went about it but I agree and take on board his message. No arguments there. Good moderating.

 

As for the US Army using the WE you are entitled to your opinion and I and the rest of us are entitled to provide supporting information/evidence about WE's success in getting a small part US army SF to look at, test and adopt WE M4 GBB as part of its training kit. You are of of course entitled to deny that men landed on the moon but it still does not alter the fact that it happened. The US Rangers have been using Airsoft weapons for training for several years so looking at WE is nothing out of normal.

 

You are making more of this than it perhaps deserves. The simple fact is the the US rangers have looked at the WE, have tested it and used it during exercises. They have approved it for use and obtained funding for the WE M4 GBB AWSS. Believe it or not. The WA or WA derivative/copy like AGM has not had a look in. In any case what procurement process the US army uses is irrelevant and I imagine most of us are not too interested in context of this thread.

 

I think WA kick-started the mass M4 GBB and it's clones provide a great entry for those of us on a low budget. However WE has set the standard that the AGM M4 GBB and other WA clones will inevitably be compared against. One of the proofs of standard setting is that US special forces clearly like the WE and plan to procure it- I think says something. As a WE operater I know what they saw in it - apart from the price

 

1.) Do you have even one shred of proof other than a couple pictures of rangers?

2.) Rangers ain't special forces bud. Get it right.

 

[bbstriker]

1.) Do you have even one shred of proof other than a couple pictures of rangers?

2.) Rangers ain't special forces bud. Get it right.

Rangers are SF in the generic sense- they will usually be used for overt SF operations as opposed to covert that Green Berets/Delta usually undertake. I suspect your problem or issue has nothing to do with WE or WA GBB rifles. Is there another thread on US SF?

 

Anyway does anyone know who's selling WA /AGM GBB Clone mags? I've e-mailed ebaybanned but had no reply yet. I didn't see any clone mags on their web site.

[tinydata]

Rangers are SF in the generic sense- they will usually be used for overt SF operations as opposed to covert that Green Berets/Delta usually undertake. I suspect your problem or issue has nothing to do with WE or WA GBB rifles. Is there another thread on US SF?

 

Anyway does anyone know who's selling WA /AGM GBB Clone mags? I've e-mailed ebaybanned but had no reply yet. I didn't see any clone mags on their web site.

 

 

 

 

 

I had to use the search function to find them on EBBanned, but they're there

[RUSHER2]

Yep- lowest bidder. But come on- they tested and trialed the WE AWSS M4 during training. If you had one of these you'd know why they selected it- especially since the stock WE M4 is now Propane and CO2 ready in addition to steel internals.

 

Clearly US Special Forces agreed to this pic http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...t&p=2097214

 

Yes, the AGM is aimed at the low end but I fear it'll begin to fall apart in the summer months. The WE AWSS is I believe the 'Systema' of GBB M4s but perhaps it's more interesting for the more technically skilled airsofters to build up their bargain AGM M4.

 

I also think that if anyone believes that paying $178 for an AGM and then upgrading it to the WE standard hoping to come in at (or below) $350 that you would pay for a stock WE (with steel internals and Propane & CO2 ready) is in for a big disappointment.

 

When you add up the cost of adding Steel bolt carrier, Steel gas nozzle, Steel Bolt catch, CO2 conversion set, it will come out at much much more than $172 -that's the difference between the AGM and WE. G&Ps WA Version is an all reinforced version but look at the sky high price.

 

What I will say after having had a loan WA and currently owning a WE is that the bolt carrier on the WA is more realistic lookng. If I could not afford $350- I would certainly buy the WA based AGM and then slowly upgrade when I could afford to. The WA M4 GBB is still a great rifle and a lot of fun. I know that part of the fun in our sport is to upgrade test and tune- a more satisfying experience

 

 

 

And the WA M4 has ALOT more kick than a we, the we cant realy compare to the realism and kick of a fully upgraded WA, sure the we is a good rifle stock but it just cant compare to the fully upgraded WA system and the internals are the most realistic BY FAR.

[bbstriker]

And the WA M4 has ALOT more kick than a we, the we cant realy compare to the realism and kick of a fully upgraded WA, sure the we is a good rifle stock but it just cant compare to the fully upgraded WA system and the internals are the most realistic BY FAR.

 

Ok. What upgrades are needed to bring the WA up to the standard you describe? I just saw the WA/AGM GBB mags on ebaybanned and at $18 each I might be persuaded to get an AGM and order the upgrades provided the total spend is reasonable. A list of the upgrades and cost estimate would be really useful.

[muckymick]

it's hard to say what need's replacing or upgraded with the agm m4 as very few people have one and nobody has posted any major reveiw's of any yet so until this happen's it's mostly guess work and assumption that it will need to be upgraded in the same way as a wa m4.

[tinydata]

well, the WA didn't need upgrading for HFC134a

[Stealthbomber]

I think it's you that's not going about this the right way. Stealth bomber has (appropriately!) corrected a rather overly robust response I posted to someone else- this issue was not the subject but the tone and language I used to make a point. I agree with stealth bombers comments on my post the other day- amusing way he went about it but I agree and take on board his message. No arguments there. Good moderating.

I'm glad you took on board what I said the other day. Thanks.

 

Genuinely though, it's hard to read your posts without thinking of them as trolling at the moment.

Sometimes it seems as though you don't actually have a point besides telling people that the WE M4 is a better gun.

Please don't take offence at that and, instead, actually consider WHY you're posting in this thread.

This is a thread about the ACM M4. It's not a thread debating whe merits of each type of gun.

 

If you DO want to discuss which one is best then make a thread about it but be prepared for it to get messy.

 

Alternatively, if you ARE posting in this thread to make a point about the ACM M4 then please ask yourself why you're posting and try to make sure that you make your point clearly and in a courteous manner.