WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

[Carsten]

roger that, thx

[Marky [UE]]

Sorry Rottenotto,

 

didn't mean to cause that much pressure. I really appreciate all your contributions and time you have helped my decisions thus far immensely. We all have a "normal" life so I am sorry if I asked too much. Thanks for the YouTube pointer, I had already watched it but it's nice to know this is what to aim for.

 

The Chef,

 

A UK Krytox club might not be such a bad option.... hmmm

As above you are right a video is a mountain of work to ask of Mr Otto.... I should think first

 

Lughnasadhuk,

 

Thanks for the UK spare supplier link for #122. I had noticed they had started doing spare mags. Does anyone know if the mags are 2nd gen. or 1st gen. from there?

 

Hopefully get customs clearance in the morning

[rottenotto]

^ No worries Markie

[sabrepilot9000]

Just thought I'd post up about the # 83 oring solution. I tried it on my gun since the stock seal died after 50 cycles and it didn't work at all (unless it was slathered in silicone). Has anyone else had a similar experience trying this?

[wraithxt1]

Have you tried sanding it down to a smaller size? Perhaps a few passes with some high grit sandpaper to make it just a hair smaller?

[4boost]

http://wem4guide.wikidot.com/

 

Working on this during the off hours. Otto, you have a PM.

 

I took a ton of pics over the weekend basically taking the rifle down to parts. I'll try to upload everything tonight and get the takedown guide started. Let me know if anything needs to be added/deleted/etc. You should be able to read everything without registering an ID at wikidot.com.

[MarkSCU]

Well been a reader of this thread for long enough thought i'd post up a pic of my WE M4:

 

WE M4 With Trades

Troy Ind 10" RIS (ACM)

Tango Down Battle Grip (ACM)

Magpul CTR PTS Stock

Blackhawk Ambi Sling Mount

ACOG with Doc Red Dot Site (ACM)

KAC Flip up Front & Rear sights

DBoys Ris Covers

 

Only other thing i mgiht change is the pistol grip but pretty happy with the standard one.

[4boost]

Well been a reader of this thread for long enough thought i'd post up a pic of my WE M4:

 

WE M4 With Trades

Troy Ind 10" RIS (ACM)

Tango Down Battle Grip (ACM)

Magpul CTR PTS Stock

Blackhawk Ambi Sling Mount

ACOG with Doc Red Dot Site (ACM)

KAC Flip up Front & Rear sights

DBoys Ris Covers

 

Only other thing i mgiht change is the pistol grip but pretty happy with the standard one.

 

Good looking rifle. Add a Magpul MIAD and you'll be set. It fits your hand so much better than the standard grip.

 

Where did you purchase the ACM Troy rail and how much was it? How is the fit and finish?

[rottenotto]

Hi Sabre

I PM'd you back before work this morning. I think you will be fine if you read over what I gave you this morning.

 

Mark, gun looks great. Youve still got the "sporting carbine look" (not a stubby CQB rifle). Looks like it will be a great field gun.

[MarkSCU]

Thanks 4boost/rottenotto.

Yeah i was looking at the MAID grip and i think i will be getting one of those at some point.

The RIS was from ebaybanned, $73 on there. Its a good fit, slightly filled the lower half which goes round the delta ring but not much. Sadly it sits about half a mil too high from the recievers top rail but hardly notice it. Only thing that could be better is the colour of the finish as its a blue(ie) sort of colour but otherwise its great, nice and solid.

[Kai_Wolf]

Hey guys, having a big issue right now. I just received my new power up tune up kit from William, along with three hop up rubbers. I installed both and made sure everything was in order. I turned my hop all the way up before firing since im using .30's. I load the mag up and put it in and it shoots STRAIGHT, totally beamlined.

 

 

Problem however is that if I tilt the gun down, the bb just rolls out. The rubber is not holding it in place for some reason. I double checked and even tried another of the three rubbers. Same thing. I checked to make sure the ball bearing was pushing down on the rubber, and that too, is a go. I have no idea what is going on with it or why it wont work. Anyone have any ideas?

 

 

---------I found an issue that Im not sure may be the problem. The reason I needed a new one was I tried grinding my old one a bit and like a dummy, I took some off of the bottom, to make it work with 20's, The bbs would just drip out the bottom like they are now afterwords, which they wouldnt do before. I compared the craptacular one I tried to modify to the new ones William sent me and saw that even though I sanded some off of the bottom of the one that came with mine, it was still LONGER, but just a tiny bit, than the new ones. Weird. So this might be the issue. So none of the 4 hop up rubbers I have seem to be holding the bb in place. It just drops out.

 

Anyone have any ideas?

Edited February 3, 2009 by Kai_Wolf

[cocofr69]

Problem however is that if I tilt the gun down, the bb just rolls out. The rubber is not holding it in place for some reason. I double checked and even tried another of the three rubbers. Same thing. I checked to make sure the ball bearing was pushing down on the rubber, and that too, is a go. I have no idea what is going on with it or why it wont work. Anyone have any ideas?

 

The problem does not come from the green rubber (part 118) because it doesn't hold the bb. The bb is hold by a black rubber (part 117).

[Kai_Wolf]

Coco, is the black rubber peice held in by a small brass ring? I dont recall seeing any black rubber peice, however, I remember loosing this brass ring that was held in by what I thought was black tape underneath it, right at the very front of the brass assembly. Could you possibly show me what you mean?

 

The problem does not come from the green rubber (part 118) because it doesn't hold the bb. The bb is hold by a black rubber (part 117).

 

[cocofr69]

Kai, this rubber part is just behind the inner barrel, inside the part 111, you can see it on this picture :

 

 

the brass ring you have lost is not a problem.

[4boost]

Coco, is the black rubber peice held in by a small brass ring? I dont recall seeing any black rubber peice, however, I remember loosing this brass ring that was held in by what I thought was black tape underneath it, right at the very front of the brass assembly. Could you possibly show me what you mean?

 

You are definitely looking for part #117 like Coco has said. Here is a picture of it out of #111:

 

http://weairsoft.com/index_product_view.ph...mp;imgid=474568

[Chris North]

I'm curious, why replace the original hop in the first place?

[Kai_Wolf]

Coco, mine seems to be there still. It seems to be in tact too. I took it out and didnt look damaged at all, and when I drop a bb in, it stays. However, when I put it back into the gun, the bb's still roll out when I shake the gun about.

 

I replaced the origional hop up beacuse I tried to foolishly grind the bottom of mine, and that is when I noticed the bbs rolling out. So I thought it was that. This is so frustrating. I really need to find a solution.

[4boost]

Coco, mine seems to be there still. It seems to be in tact too. I took it out and didnt look damaged at all, and when I drop a bb in, it stays. However, when I put it back into the gun, the bb's still roll out when I shake the gun about.

 

I replaced the origional hop up beacuse I tried to foolishly grind the bottom of mine, and that is when I noticed the bbs rolling out. So I thought it was that. This is so frustrating. I really need to find a solution.

 

Have you compared the new valve assembly with the old one (ie. dimensions)? Maybe try unscrewing the valve/loading nozzle (#41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46) from #39 (powerup kit) and attach it to #39 of the standard power kit. Let us know if that makes a difference. For whatever reason, maybe the loading nozzle is pushing the BB slightly past #117 resulting in the BB rolling out of the barrel.

 

What I would do to diagnose the issue:

 

1. Do you still have the same issue when using the standard velocity valve?

2. If not try what I suggested. Unscrew the brass valve assembly (#41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46) from the silver rod (#39) on the powerup kit and screw it onto the silver rod of the standard kit.

[rottenotto]

Just a quick note before I call it a night here...

 

On my gun, the bb is always knocked past the black bucking (designed to trap the bb).

 

The inertia of the heavy bolt and brass nozzle knocks it just past this trap, and the bb rests against the green hop rubber.

 

Thats what seems to hold it from rolling out the barrel in my gun. Exactly like my SHOEI MP44's did.

 

If you modified your green WE hop rubber in any way (like grinding it down) it will roll out the barrel for sure. Others who have modded the green hop material have noted the same in pages way back.

 

If you put a new green hop in there (unmolested) and its still rolling out teh barrel, I would say it isnt assembled correctly....OR....the batch of green replacement hops have a shallower depth and arent stopping the bb's......just my guess.

 

Enough people and dealers bitched about the agressive hop (overhopped out of the box) that I bet WE modified the green material to be shallower/less hop. Wouldnt surprise me.

 

A side note.......I mentioned before that my MP44's were HORRIBLE in this respect. The hop had to be set aggressively to stop the bb from rolling out the barrel - but then the bb's would shoot to the sky after 30 feet. Krappy compromises that I never sorted out with the SHOEI's.

 

It all comes back to the weight and inertia of the heavy bolt/loading nozzle, knocking the bb's forward.

Edited February 3, 2009 by rottenotto

[Pollux77]

Hey Kai, I can confirm that your problem should be #117. I also had a problem with this part, but the other way round.

My BBs got stuck in there. I also posted a pic three pages before where you can see a piece of it sticking into the barrel, I just cleaned it up with a scalpel, now it seems good to go.

If you pull out the innerbarrel, the bucking #117 should remain inside #111, I had to push it out with a pencil. Maybe you've lost yours, take a look under your desk

Edited February 3, 2009 by Pollux77

[Kai_Wolf]

It is indeed in the gun though. Ive taken it out and put it back in quite a few times. I didnt start experiencing this until I shaved my old hop up rubber down, and now these new ones I was sent also do not retain the bb, as was stated by Notto. Not sure what to do really. I wonder if WIlliam has some of the older Hop Up Rubbers laying around. Also, I have tried both valve assemblies and both do the same thing. Part 117 seems to be placed in perfectly. The new hop ups seem short.

 

 

Hey Kai, I can confirm that your problem should be #117. I also had a problem with this part, but the other way round.

My BBs got stuck in there. I also posted a pic three pages before where you can see a piece of it sticking into the barrel, I just cleaned it up with a scalpel, now it seems good to go.

If you pull out the innerbarrel, the bucking #117 should remain inside #111, I had to push it out with a pencil. Maybe you've lost yours, take a look under your desk

Edited February 3, 2009 by Kai_Wolf

[Sale]

If you modified your green WE hop rubber in any way (like grinding it down) it will roll out the barrel for sure. Others who have modded the green hop material have noted the same in pages way back.

I cut off a piece of the rubber, but the BBs have not started to roll out. It just reduced the hop-up to a much lower level. I'd have to test-shoot it to find out exactly how low weight BBs I can use, but it's definitely reduced and the BBs aren't rolling out.

 

It all comes back to the weight and inertia of the heavy bolt/loading nozzle, knocking the bb's forward.

The weight is in a way irrelevant, because it has way enough inertia to positively knock the the BB forward. Whether it's 150 grams or 250 grams doesn't matter. After the BB has been brought into motion, the key is the velocity and how far it is pushed. It could be a too hasty return stroke and/or a too long nozzle. (I'm not saying it is, but could be.)

 

I'm thinking it's possible that the system somehow traps air into the blowback system on the forward stroke, and the blow of air is enough to push the BB past the hop-up rubber. Just a thought. With regular GBB pistols the excessive gas is bled out because the nozzle and magazine are disconnected, but the WE M4 mag retains a tight seal with the blowback cylinder at all times.

 

When the moving parts are coming forward and the nozzle has just entered the black rubber chamber, where does the remaining air in the system escape as the bolt carrier and nozzle move the final few millimeters forward? I think the only way out is from the gap between the BB and inner barrel – and that gap is small.

 

-Sale

[rottenotto]

Hi Kai

 

Try shimming the green rubber piece. Plac a small piece of tape on top so that the bearing can press it further into the innder barrel for more hop. Something like that. get creative like we have to be when AEG hopups arent giving enough "hop".

 

Just curious? With the hop set at 'full on', you still have bb's rolling out?

 

Also place a piece of tape around the barrel where that missing brass ring used to be. Just try it. Ill explain why later.

 

 

Sale-

I undertand what you are saying.

 

But with the Escorts, it was always the interia of the heavy brass bolt and nozzle slamming forward that just sent the bb (any weight bb) down the barrel. If the hop rubber wasnt set high, it would just roll right down and out the barrel in the loading process.

 

As for trapping air on the forward stroke, this is what I have been saying all along in PM's to others regarding #122.

 

The #122 washer has to be smaller than the cylinder - the store bought O-ring is not. And it creates two problems.

 

What it is doing, is slowing down the return (wont return easily like a Nine ball style seal for intance) and at the same time it is pressurizing the cylinder on the return.

 

The back pressure reenters the nozzle vents until the valve slams closed. Then the pressure is forced to escape in other places. Not good.

 

The "same size" O-ring is a static seal that is obstructing things on both the way back, and the return forward. (I would say the reason for failing valve heads)

 

The gun needs a dynamic seal to work properly. Thats what WE gave it. Is there a better design? Probably. But all things considered, the WE seal works best so far.

Edited February 3, 2009 by rottenotto

[Brian™]

I noticed that the space between the delta ring and the receiver is a bit much, would there be a problem in fitting RS and other delta rings?

[jonny2400]

Hi guys

 

I have been keeping an eye on this forum for quite a bit now, I think that I might step up and order one on payday. Any UK players got one and whom did u get it off?

 

I see that Ehobby now have the in stock for $320 ($80 del) and I have never had an issue in the past with these guys! Or should I go for a deal with Airsoft Buddy $430 with spare mag & custom receiver!!

 

(should I get a spare Part 122 with the order and should I stock up on green or 134a gas?

 

Many thanks for your replys.