AustinWolv Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I cannot help but feel that side-by-side comparisons with the real steel would be helpful, right about now. Feel free to send me one, I'll gladly do it. AustinWolv - just to confirm, you have the same issue as BK with the hop's feed tube being too long? No. My problem is more disconcerting, for me. For this price, I was expecting better internal build quality.....my mag catch/mag release appears to be missing a pin that holds some stuff together.....a steel bracket and another metal bracket that is pushed by the mag release to disengage the mag catch were basically loose in the gun when I took it out of the box. I think I know where the steel bracket goes, but am awaiting a TSI response on that and the missing pin. That metal mag release bracket was disappointing in that it appeared glued to the roll pin at the lower part of the mag release.....like glue is going to hold two moving metal surfaces together....... Then, I was tightening, what I believe, is the front sling mount on the left side of the receiver, only to have it literally pop off......it is a molded plastic piece that was glued to a cut-off bolt, which threads into the internal frame. Um, ok. I JB-Welded that back together. In inspecting some of the plastic parts, there are no rounds at the bottom of snaps or ribs.....that to me is a basic good design practice to avoid stress concentrations. I can definitely see people cracking off the large snap on the front handguard if they aren't careful removing it because of this. The exterior parts and internal frame look pretty good and appear to be quality (haven't torn the entire gun apart, just most of it), but some detail design aspects weren't utilized. Hell, a small bit of my feed tube is cracked off already, partly due to me fiddling with the gun to hold a mag in to chrono it....since, you know, my mag catch/release was goofed up. But couldn't some small rounds be put in at the base of the feed tube walls to the feed tube body? Then, when looking into the receiver from the rear, the hop chamber was canted to one side, so of course if one shot the gun, the BBs were going to veer to that side. I think it was the hop adjustment bar catching on the hop chamber adjustment lever and causing it to rotate. Just fooling with that got it straightened out a bit better, but it isn't like it is contained that well to vertically oriented. Like I mentioned, I'm waiting on TSI's response before anything else. For the price and the reputation of TSI's Galil series, I was expecting more out of the box. For this price, I could have gotten a really nice VFC something or Real Sword AK or something, you know? In the normal TAR config (not C), the overall length is ~831mm (just about 32.75" is what I measured with a tape measure in a line across the vents) from front of flashhider to rear of buttplate. The front of the receiver to the rear of the buttplate was 26.375" which is ~670mm. Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Oh my, so we have a gun that is too late, too big, with missing parts and less than ideal internal build quality ? Anyone want to buy a TSI Tavor ? 20% off Link to post Share on other sites
The Reptile House Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Maybe with early user feedback, some of the issues will be fixed? It's not looking that good, though, is it? Edit: this thread is getting a lot of views... Link to post Share on other sites
The Reptile House Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hell, a small bit of my feed tube is cracked off already, partly due to me fiddling with the gun to hold a mag in to chrono it....since, you know, my mag catch/release was goofed up. But couldn't some small rounds be put in at the base of the feed tube walls to the feed tube body? AustinWolv - does the hop unit look like a standard AK one? Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 That's it. My patience has been truely stretched. I really was expecting to sell my ARES Tavor to get the TSI version. No more. I really now appreciate what a good bit of kit I have. I'll check-in in about 12 months time. My gut instinct about a company that cannot be bothered to put up pictures of its product was right after all. Good luck to you all- I really mean it. You guys have been so patient, understanding and positive. TSI shoudl count themselves lucky to have a collection of customers like you guys. If it was my money I'd have gone thermonuclear by now. I'm unsubscribing from this thread of woe! Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Other observations: -The little pocket for the MARS front handguard switch is a nice feature. -The finish on the metal parts looks really good to me. -The machine work on metal parts and threading, for example, is clean and finished, not rough like many of replica products out there. -Would like to see improvement to the upper handguard area under the cocking handle.....the part has warp to it so it doesn't sit tightly to the receiver although the part itself has no wobble and is mounted securely to the receiver. Looks like molding condition thing, not poor design. -Inner barrel is supported for a good length -Mechbox is Echo1 shell? It has an 'E1' in a triangle silkscreened on the side. -Metal bushings. - M4 cylinder.....with the barrel the length it is in mind (regular config), should be switched to full cylinder most likely. -Haven't opened the mechbox yet. -What is with the multiple selector positions? I'm counting 4 positions. The first two are safe, then semi, then full. There is a delay when you switch to semi or full, as the electronics do their thing to recognize the mode. Selector aligns with safe and semi, but full position is halfway between semi and full. And that mystery 4th position is halfway between safe and semi. -The manual only calls out 3 selector positions. Be nice if the manual covered the electronics programming also. Somehow I was able to turn semi into burst mode, it seemed, And then somehow I turned it back to semi, by a trigger pull after the first test vibration when I plugged a battery in again. -The front accessory rail is nice. -One of the front sight screw towers was cracked, presumably because the bolt was tightened too much or the molded hole was slightly undersized. This could be a really, really nice replica with some minor improvements. I'd really like to see a real one to compare. does the hop unit look like a standard AK one? Yes. It is mated to a curved feed tube extension, which is what the mag engages. I really was expecting to sell my ARES Tavor to get the TSI version. No more. Ok, see ya. I haven't held the ARES Tavor in months, but my old, vague impression was it toyish compared to the TSI externally. It is some minor, finishing items that is holding my TSI back right now. Unfortunately. I'd be interested in seeing the ARES again to see if my opinion changes. I don't recall the externals and metal on the ARES being nearly as nice as the TSI. You guys have been so patient, understanding and positive. For me personally, I've come to expect situations like this, since I do get into a number of custom things or niche things. Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 TSI Tavor support group, eh ? Luckily, my M4 is still going strong. What a lovely gun she is. As for TSI Tavor, I don't expect much of it anymore. I tried to cancel my preorder once, but got no refund in 10 days time, so foolishly wrote Guy to count me back in. A month and a half later, still no gun or my 700+USD. Link to post Share on other sites
bknewcomb Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Bbstriker is correct on one point. This thread is just a bunch of woe. I am satisfied with my purchase. It isn't perfect, but nothing is. I expect teething problems and so far TSI has bent over backwards to fix what they can. Nothing I've run across is a catistrophic issue. It looks good It feels good It shoots good ....maybe the issues we've found so far are a result of assembling the guns too fast to appease the mob? Hmmm..... Link to post Share on other sites
AustinWolv Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 ....maybe the issues we've found so far are a result of assembling the guns too fast to appease the mob? Hmmm..... That is my 'feel' for things right now. Now it is wait and see on the customer service aspect. I didn't bother posting much in this thread previously because of the 'tone' of the thread. Like I said, I'm used to waiting and working on stuff post-purchase to get it right, while others may not be. Out of the box, I'm just saying people wouldn't be happy with what I got. My viewpoint might also be skewed a bit, based on my personal arsenal and background. As they say, you can't please everyone, so maybe something that I noticed is no big deal to someone else or vice versa. Since I design everyday-use items for a living, I probably look at things a little differently than some people. BTW, in my wife's untrained eye in comparing the gun with me holding it to pics on the 'net....it is sized correctly. ROFL. Link to post Share on other sites
Bishamon Tiger Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 ....maybe the issues we've found so far are a result of assembling the guns too fast to appease the mob? Hmmm..... Oh, come on, mate - how much more time was required? Also, if more time was required, why didn't TSI say? They've never been afraid of announcing delays before, for all the right reasons. Hopefully they are listening to your feedback and that will affect their production schedule and future releases. As far as I've read so far, these are teething problems which should be expected for version 1.0 of anything. Sure, this will affect people who need perfection out of the box, but this thread will eventually work up the solutions. Link to post Share on other sites
The Reptile House Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I didn't bother posting much in this thread previously because of the 'tone' of the thread. Like I said, I'm used to waiting and working on stuff post-purchase to get it right, while others may not be. Out of the box, I'm just saying people wouldn't be happy with what I got. My viewpoint might also be skewed a bit, based on my personal arsenal and background. As they say, you can't please everyone, so maybe something that I noticed is no big deal to someone else or vice versa. Since I design everyday-use items for a living, I probably look at things a little differently than some people. OK - guilty as charged, but I do need this to work out of the box; I doubt I'll be able to do the repairs myself. BTW, in my wife's untrained eye in comparing the gun with me holding it to pics on the 'net....it is sized correctly. ROFL. Similarly, my wife, "...can't see what all the fuss is about" Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Had some spare time so I played with photos. I scaled Tavor girl so her rifle is the same size as BK's. She seems quite tall now, at least 6'5" Link to post Share on other sites
Shinden Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I'm probably going to need an actual side by side comparison of the ARES and TSI version in a full indepth review before spending my money on this gun...There are people posting doubts as well, but bottom line, I do want to know which one is the more accurate TAVOR on the market. Link to post Share on other sites
Sayeret Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I have just canceled my order. In today's economy, I have to move now, and have no job, and just about six months is ridiculous... Add the fact that people are both unsure of the quality of the Tavor, and the accuracy... I rather buy food and various other necessities. Update: Both PayPal and AmEX were contacted and both could not force a return of the money due to it being after 60 days. However, they informed TSI that I am looking to cancel my order, so now its in TSIs hands. Hopefully they can refund me the money. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdraben Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm curious as to why you went to PayPal and AmEx first and not TSI? I always go to the company I'm paying when I want to cancel an order. If they don't (and none have refused, thus far), then I'd take it to AmEx or PayPal. Of course, as you mentioned, it's too late, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Sayeret Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I sent an email already with regards to the delivery date and got no response, and quite frankly, was tired of waiting. Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm curious as to why you went to PayPal and AmEx first and not TSI? I always go to the company I'm paying when I want to cancel an order. If they don't (and none have refused, thus far), then I'd take it to AmEx or PayPal. Of course, as you mentioned, it's too late, anyway. Did just that a month ago, recieved no money for 10 days. Paypal and cc issuer could not help me either. So I cancelled my cancellation Link to post Share on other sites
Sayeret Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 We will see, hopefully I will hear from them this week. It would be great if they cancel it, otherwise I guess I will have a Rifle, and have to tighten other things these coming months. Link to post Share on other sites
bknewcomb Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Well, at least you have a legitimate need for the money. Lot of peaple out there hurting right now. Link to post Share on other sites
Sayeret Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes, and I want to thank TSI publicly for returning me the money, I really do appreciate it, and when the economy is better, and you guys get this Tavor straightened out, I will be sure to look back here for one. Link to post Share on other sites
Sonny Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Someone posted this on TSI Facebook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_l9OnaFWos Link to post Share on other sites
david pithers Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Someone posted this on TSI Facebook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_l9OnaFWos order cancelled, thats one flimsy creaky sounding gun Link to post Share on other sites
DrKalinka Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 If that is how the gun s supposed to be, im not impressed. The IDF thought that was good? Im inclined to believe that the ARES version has better build quality... EDIT: Really, what we need now is for someone to confirm or deny the build quality that he gives an impression of. Is it the suck or is it of acceptable quality? Is it as flimsy as it looks? How is the selector? How does it fire? Does it creak like that? Are there any areas that you are particularly afraid of breaking during NORMAL use? Not the "Oh *suitcase*! I fell on it!" type of use... Really... Any information would be good. Also some small indications if those things can be fixed just by applying glue and what not? Link to post Share on other sites
Varry Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 i was happy already with it, but now even more: with my ares tavor. I was thinking of selleing the ares to buy the tsi, but i have to change my mind Link to post Share on other sites
Amoki Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 If that is how the gun s supposed to be, im not impressed. The IDF thought that was good? Im inclined to believe that the ARES version has better build quality... Well, the Israelis are given something like $3 billion in military aid every year to spend on US-made military goods after all- - I suspect the IDF deal comes from this. On the subject of the video, I am disappointed with the creaky furniture - even a JG G36C at 1/6th of the cost doesn't creak half as bad. When I pay for a $500 gun, the last thing I want in the field is to have an unexpected creak to give myself away. Worse still, creak usually hints at weak structure which means breakage in the long term. And the disappointing part is, all TSI needed to do fix the creaky furniture is to use thicker plastic (and TSI claim to use glass-filled nylon which is hard and tough so material should not be an issue here). Either the entire design isn't well thought-out and well tested-out, parts variation/out of spec (ditto QC), or is a feature (most epic PR answer ever, right up there with Robert Bowling). IF the accuracy and the internals fail to live up to expection I will most certainly cancel my order as well. Link to post Share on other sites
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