The US election thread

[sgt.kicker]

Damn, I can't wait to see the VP debates. Biden will destroy that hockey mom!

[TheKurodaVagrant]

I think McCain's desire to actually help with the financial crisis when we need it has really solidified my choice for the candidates this year. McCain is a hard worker, taking time off from the campaign to get *suitcase* done, while Obama just tells him from the sideline to put in a good word for his own sake. God, what a wuss. If Obama wanted to show his solidarity towards uniting the parties, he would have abstained from the debate and joined McCain in the talks. If he wants to bring about his so-called "change," he'd better start before he gets in office because he is NOT impressing me.

[Chimpy]

I think McCain's desire to actually help with the financial crisis when we need it has really solidified my choice for the candidates this year. McCain is a hard worker, taking time off from the campaign to get *suitcase* done, while Obama just tells him from the sideline to put in a good word for his own sake. God, what a wuss. If Obama wanted to show his solidarity towards uniting the parties, he would have abstained from the debate and joined McCain in the talks. If he wants to bring about his so-called "change," he'd better start before he gets in office because he is NOT impressing me.

 

Err... he is meeting with McCain and Bush to help sort this out. Obama and McCain released a joint statement earlier on today. This is mostly theatre though since neither candidate can really do anything.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7634810.stm

 

The time to actually help with the looming financial crisis would have been several years ago.

[TheKurodaVagrant]

Haven't watched the news yet today. But my point still stands that Obama didn't jump on the occasion like a hobo to a ham sandwich.

[Chimpy]

That's because he didn't need to. It's the Republicans that look bad due to the financial crisis. Look at the recent points drop! Even FOX has Obama 6-points clear of McCain at the moment. This current episode is cynical spin manipulation in an attempt to claw back that lost ground.

[elrey]

Actually I think that McCain is attempting to delay the VP debates more than anything as currently Biden will destroy Palin (who seems to give a good speech but struggles when she has to think on her feet*).

 

Also exactly how is McCain going to handle the crisis given he has no actual power to wield and is in the middle of an election race? It's pure political spin BS to attempt to look like he is doing something given the popular perception that the current economic issues are all the fault of the Republicans. It may even backfire and make him look like he is running away from the debate.

 

Exactly, and of course that's what Obama's going to try to do. Meanwhile, McCain has to look like he's putting "country first" and claim that Obama would rather let the economy tank further than lose an election.

 

The McCain campaign told ABC News on Wednesday that John McCain wants to postpone Friday's presidential debate until Thursday, Oct. 2.

 

The Arizona senator would like the vice presidential debate between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden, which is currently scheduled to take place on Thursday, Oct. 2 in St. Louis, Missouri, to be scheduled for a later unspecified date.

 

They have to brief Palin more, or as you said she'll get destroyed. They've already shortened the allotted response time, which means both that Palin won't have to say/know as much, and Biden won't be able to drone on endlessly as he's known to do.

 

It was a bold move for McCain to suspend his campaign, but it's looking like a Hail Mary at this point.

 

I think this piece on electoralvote.com sums it up pretty well:

 

"John McCain suspended his campaign, stopped running ads, and said he would not participate in the first debate scheduled for tomorrow at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, MS. He said that the nation is on the brink of a serious recession and this is no time for politics. McCain has been in the Senate 25 years. He knows precisely what will happen if he barges into the office of Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), chairman of the Senate banking committee and announces: "OK, Outta here, I'm taking over now. Dodd's reaction would not be printable on a family Website like this one and McCain would be instantly and unceremoniously shown the door. There are two people responsible for writing banking bills: Dodd and his House counterpart Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA). If Dodd wants input from the Republicans on this, he will ask the ranking member on his committee, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL). McCain and Obama play no role and McCain knows that very well.

 

So why did McCain propose cancelling the debate? In a word: politics. By flying into D.C. as the savior he might appear as a man of action to people who don't know how the Senate works. The reality of course, is that Obama and McCain's appearance in Dodd's office would instantly turn the entire event into a political circus. If left alone, Dodd can come up with a bill a lot faster than with McCain, Obama, and the entire national press corps in the room "helping." A second point is that by pulling all his TV ads, he saves money, something Obama has more of. McCain may need that money at the end of October, so a penny not spent now is a penny available in October."

 

Edit: Check out how Letterman handled McCain canceling his appearance on the late show.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

[davedawg123]

I think McCain does whatever he needs to regardless of whether it will be the politically prudent decision. His big message during the RNC was putting country first, so why does it come as such a surprise that he would practice what he preaches by suspending his campaign to put forth whatever effort he can when economists are saying that the biggest financial collapse since the Great Depression is imminent? He's been down in the polls for the majority of his campaign and I think its clear he's not that good of a politician. I don't really see anyone but McCain doing this. OTOH, Obama's big message is hoping for change and I would expect the same hope in this situation. There's no arguing he's a great politician as showcased by his epic speeches, taking his sweet time to consult with his advisors prior to showing support for an allied nation under attack (oh wait...), and record of simply voting "present" on numerous occasions as to not alienate anyone (or show he has a backbone or principles).

 

And call me crazy, but DL = liberal? Nah, he would rip into Obama the same way had he canceled his sheduled appearance. Right...

 

Spin spin spin. It's all spin.

[Skarclaw]

There is a video on google vids, a documentary by some bloke who had some sattilite equitment, and he picked up and recorded the sat streams from various media outlets as they covered and election, and it showed all the stuff they didn't show (well, not all the stuff, but you know what I mean), I can't for the life of me remember what it was called though.

 

edit

 

yes I can

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7344181953466797353

[GuzziHero]

Also Guzzi neither McCain or Palin are PNAC signatories.

 

Wrong.

 

http://www.politicsandcurrentaffairs.co.uk...about-pnac.html

 

McCain is a major fundraiser for PNAC.

 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=115034

 

http://www.king-george.biz/wst_page5.html

Ctrl+f, McCain

[DarkLite]

I think McCain does whatever he needs to regardless of whether it will be the politically prudent decision. His big message during the RNC was putting country first, so why does it come as such a surprise that he would practice what he preaches by suspending his campaign to put forth whatever effort he can when economists are saying that the biggest financial collapse since the Great Depression is imminent? He's been down in the polls for the majority of his campaign and I think its clear he's not that good of a politician. I don't really see anyone but McCain doing this. OTOH, Obama's big message is hoping for change and I would expect the same hope in this situation. There's no arguing he's a great politician as showcased by his epic speeches, taking his sweet time to consult with his advisors prior to showing support for an allied nation under attack (oh wait...), and record of simply voting "present" on numerous occasions as to not alienate anyone (or show he has a backbone or principles).

 

I think this piece on electoralvote.com sums it up pretty well:

 

"John McCain suspended his campaign, stopped running ads, and said he would not participate in the first debate scheduled for tomorrow at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, MS. He said that the nation is on the brink of a serious recession and this is no time for politics. McCain has been in the Senate 25 years. He knows precisely what will happen if he barges into the office of Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), chairman of the Senate banking committee and announces: "OK, Outta here, I'm taking over now. Dodd's reaction would not be printable on a family Website like this one and McCain would be instantly and unceremoniously shown the door. There are two people responsible for writing banking bills: Dodd and his House counterpart Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA). If Dodd wants input from the Republicans on this, he will ask the ranking member on his committee, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL). McCain and Obama play no role and McCain knows that very well.

 

So why did McCain propose cancelling the debate? In a word: politics. By flying into D.C. as the savior he might appear as a man of action to people who don't know how the Senate works. The reality of course, is that Obama and McCain's appearance in Dodd's office would instantly turn the entire event into a political circus. If left alone, Dodd can come up with a bill a lot faster than with McCain, Obama, and the entire national press corps in the room "helping." A second point is that by pulling all his TV ads, he saves money, something Obama has more of. McCain may need that money at the end of October, so a penny not spent now is a penny available in October."

 

davedawg123, please read the thread before replying, find out how senate works and then throw away your argument, kthnx.

[sgt.kicker]

Apparently davedawg123 is one of those people that doesn't know how the Senate works. I bet he views McCain as a savior and man of action.

[davedawg123]

Savior, no. Hell, I even said he's not a good politician and he'll likely lose. Man of action though, yes. But who said "he's taking over now"? I realize he's not a part of the Senate Banking Committee, but do you realize they don't have to be a part of that committee to propose a bill that falls within their jurisdiction? Don't lecture me about the workings of the Senate.

[dookieboy]

Anyone get their state's Official Voter Guide yet? Been reading mine.

[elrey]

Comedic relief time! Matt Damon rips Sarah Palin:

 

College Humor then makes a trailer for Damon's nightmare of a "really bad Disney movie"-- http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1831461

 

From the makers of The Mighty Ducks and Syriana...

[sgt.kicker]

College Humor then makes a trailer for Damon's nightmare of a "really bad Disney movie"-- http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1831461

 

From the makers of The Mighty Ducks and Syriana...

 

holy *suitcase*, that's funny

 

but true

[Jagdraben]

Could we have the options changed from:

 

Barack Obama/Joe Biden;

John McCain/Sarah Palin;

Other, and;

I don't give a toss about the US elections.

 

To:

 

Gas bag A/Gas bag C;

Gas bag B/Gas bag D;

Some other gas bag, and;

I don't give a toss about gas bags.

 

? ? ?

[Chimpy]

Wrong.

 

http://www.politicsandcurrentaffairs.co.uk...about-pnac.html

 

McCain is a major fundraiser for PNAC.

 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=115034

 

http://www.king-george.biz/wst_page5.html

Ctrl+f, McCain

 

Actually you are wrong.

 

These guys are the PNAC signatories:

 

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

 

McCain isn't actually President of the New Citizenship Project anymore either and can't have been for some time. Although finding dates for when he left is surprisingly hard because almost all the pages don't mention it even though it takes five seconds to find out who the current President is! So he may have actually left prior to the 1997 launch of PNAC. Regardless of which this is not evidence of McCain personally fund raising nor is it evidence that he is part of the PNAC lizard conspiracy or whatever it is this month.

 

As for that last link it's hilarious the guy doesn't even offer a source for his additional signatories. He might be right on the money but any moron can write a list of names on the internet.

 

Like this!

 

Additional PNAC signatories:

 

GuzziHero

Donald Duck

Col. Kadafi

 

It's on the internet it must be true!

 

Just to end I don't doubt that there are a lot of people that are linked to PNAC in the Republican Party. I do doubt that its some sort of mad conspiracy as put forward in those links.

 

BTW you most definitely want to check your sources when some of the titles are things like:

 

All McCain's Advisers are Directors and Senior Fellows of PNAC - Engineers of 9/11

 

Although in that case the guy actually presents some original sources that show some of McCain's campaign advisers do/have worked at PNAC.

[Pablo]

Could we have the options changed from:

 

Barack Obama/Joe Biden;

John McCain/Sarah Palin;

Other, and;

I don't give a toss about the US elections.

 

To:

 

Gas bag A/Gas bag C;

Gas bag B/Gas bag D;

Some other gas bag, and;

I don't give a toss about gas bags.

 

? ? ?

 

I still prefer the Southpark version.

 

[WeirdoTransvestite]

Savior, no. Hell, I even said he's not a good politician and he'll likely lose. Man of action though, yes. But who said "he's taking over now"? I realize he's not a part of the Senate Banking Committee, but do you realize they don't have to be a part of that committee to propose a bill that falls within their jurisdiction? Don't lecture me about the workings of the Senate.

 

He can lecture you all he wants.

 

Also, how is McCain a man of action? All these proposals are worth *suitcase*. He can't do much of anything as of now, so it's all just ###### to make it look like he's doing something. As is the case with most presidents, it's just pretty words to get them into office, then they do whatever they want.

 

[elrey]

It looks like McCain is now going to show up for the debate tonight after all.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/us/polit...batecnd.html?hp

[davedawg123]

He can lecture you all he wants.

 

Also, how is McCain a man of action? All these proposals are worth *suitcase*. He can't do much of anything as of now, so it's all just ###### to make it look like he's doing something. As is the case with most presidents, it's just pretty words to get them into office, then they do whatever they want.

 

But I can't tell him his lecture is flawed? How dare anyone contradict an article on the internet.

 

It's McCain's sacrifice to make. I never agreed it was the wise choice to make. But I do believe his intent wasn't one of political posturing. He invited Obama to join him in Washington immediately after Obama suggested the joint statement. That's not partisan, that's literally the difference between speech and action. McCain is the one that's been asking Obama repeatedly for the debates, so why would Mac want to avoid it?

 

And while that youtube interview may make Palin look unknowledgable to those who solely use video clips to make their judgements, you can find plenty of gotcha clips on there of the other candidates as well, past and present (and future candidate sound bites will surely follow). Obama doesn't know how many states there are, McCain doesn't know how many houses he has, Biden tells a guy in a wheelchair to standup, and Palin doesn't know every single proposed McCain bill in his quarter century in the Senate after 3 weeks on the campaign trail. What an idiot indeed.

[WeirdoTransvestite]

Wow. I never said you couldn't. But then you said he couldn't. Funny.

 

You also didn't answer anything. Awesome. I asked how he was a man of action, and you give me nothing in about 100 words.

 

And by the way, McCain's the one who has been postponing the debates. Get your facts right, would ya?

[Walton_County_Firefighter]

Wow if this whole election thing falls on its *albatross* I might need to start looking at real estate in the UK or Canada. Always wanted to live in Germany though, might have to check them out too. Seriously though, I have talked to probably 4-500 McCain supporters and 3 yes 3 Obama supporters.

[Skarclaw]

Assuming this took place in Georgia, which is hardly liberal;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Georgia...04_Election.JPG - How Georgia voted last year

 

Thats not a surprise.

[WeirdoTransvestite]

Well, the presidential debate has just ended, and guess what? McCain largely had nothing to say. Obama went first, and McCain mostly followed his lead, stating things that Obama had just stated, just in a slightly different wording. McCain also had a lot of "I didn't study for the test" syndrome. A large portion of his rebuttals were ######, and dancing around the issue without actually answering the questions. Their views on energy were largely similar, but they mostly differed on Iraq/Afghanistan. Obama wants to pull out (or start withdrawing) within about 16 months. McCain doesn't even have a plan. Obama wants to send more troops into Afghanistan to finish what we started, as Al Qaeda is more powerful now than ever. I got the feeling that McCain didn't even consider it. McCain really loved dropping names, talking about the good old days, and raving about his experience. Which leads me to the last thing. McCain loved getting the last word. And he got it. And it was something that absolutely disgusted me, his former status as a POW. He's trying to pull on the heart strings of America, and I think that was his original intention. Though it may have been a last-ditch effort to a debate that he lost a while ago.