How Do Hold Your VFG?

[Horsem4n]

"speedsoft" only comes into being based on the behavior of the players. when theres only a small area to build a field, where the engagement distances are considerably closer because of the volume of cover available and the total area of the field, some players may feel that the only way of taking out other players easily is to run around wildly and catch people off guard that are in cover or by spraying the cover whilst running around it to keep the victim in place. alas, there is no need to play like this, but some players may feel that they want to move things along with these 'lesser man' tactics.

 

paintballers call it bunkering. and its very effective, thus very tempting.

[GuzziHero]

I sometimes like speedsofting in CQB especially against uberleet walts, when I just dash up and take them by surprise before they can turn their 15kg laden torsos to shoot me HAHAHA.

[bbondaloose]

Isn't Speedsoft popular in the Philippines or Hawaii?

[aznriptide859]

I think "speedsoft" in the airsoft world is just "CQB matches" XD.

[Stealthbomber]

Funny thing is, speaking as somebody who's been shooting various rifles for 25 years, I've never had a problem holding onto the foregrip of a rifle.

 

Back when VFGs were a "new thing" in airsoft I tried to tell people that they were a mixed blessing because, although they improve manoevrability they also detract from stability.

I tried (and failed) to point out that holding the foregrip of a rifle creates stability and any discomfort was purely a case of lack of muscle memory or familiarity.

 

Nobody wanted to hear it though.

VFGs were new and cool and what real-steel "operators" had bolted to their guns so they must be the best thing since slide bread, right?

 

Fast forward nearly ten years and now we've got short VFGs as the fashionable thing, so you can use them to brace the ball of your hand while you hold the foregrip and, more recently, AFGs which pretty-much revert the shooter to a classic (if a little more comfortable) foregrip posture and we're being told that grabbing hold of a VFG is a bad thing.

 

The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

[kojak]

My grip has sort of evolved over time. Now I look for a short VFG and mount it quite close to the magazine, around B20. I grasp it diagonally, with my grip shifting naturally from just my pinky to the last three fingers of my support hand as I move around.

 

 

I hold the fixed grip of my AK with all four fingers, since it's so far forward.

 

 

In any case, my thumb is always gripping the upper and not the VFG.

[RC-1138]

Full Grip (Whole hand wraps around) is how I did it before I was in the army and it's how they taught me to do it.

[08kecarv]

I guess so. It was pretty much inevitable that idiots would start playing.

Those aren't airsofters. They're paintballers with airsoft guns

 

And you've basically just summed up the Hawaii Airsoft scene...

 

 

"speedsoft" only comes into being based on the behavior of the players. when theres only a small area to build a field, where the engagement distances are considerably closer because of the volume of cover available and the total area of the field, some players may feel that the only way of taking out other players easily is to run around wildly and catch people off guard that are in cover or by spraying the cover whilst running around it to keep the victim in place. alas, there is no need to play like this, but some players may feel that they want to move things along with these 'lesser man' tactics.

 

paintballers call it bunkering. and its very effective, thus very tempting.

 

 

This is true. The largest field we have (probably around 150m length) only has a true engagement distance of about 180-200 ft. max. The more common and frequently used field(s) have a max length of just under 100m but nearly 90% of all engagements take place between the 30-70 ft distance.

 

It also doesn't help that the only 'airsoft' fields we can play on are just paintball fields with out the inflatables and instead have tiny plywood 'houses' (two giant doors and two giant windows; no roof), giant wooden spools... Nevermind I'll let the pictures do the talking (down below).

 

 

And heres a quote from my local Airsoft SLASH paintball forum:

 

Seems like everyone had fun.

Except for that guy that was treating everything like a mil-sim.

LOL at yelling at little kids to move up and flank.

But overall, it was a well spent saturday afternoon.

 

 

 

 

But to keep this on topic, I use a handstop/thumb break style grip. I find it not only more comfortable but also easier to shoulder the weapon and to control it. My friend chooses to use a full Retard style with the foregrip on his AK... He's never been one for doing things right, just whatever he thinks is right (he closes one eye when using his RDS).

 

 

 

Pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

But to keep this on topic, I use a handstop/thumb break style grip. I find it not only more comfortable but also easier to shoulder the weapon and to control it. My friend chooses to use a full Retard style with the foregrip on his AK... He's never been one for doing things right, just whatever he thinks is right (he closes one eye when using his RDS).

 

[Skarclaw]

Personally, some of that speedball type stuff looks pretty fun. Airsoft doesn't equal milsim.

 

 

Some of you guys are snottier then a rich kid in primark...

[kingdong]

i second that skarclaw

[seansamurai1]

I use mine more of a support, so I dont hold it parse, in fact I use mine the same way the guy on MagPul dynamics does, its more of a steady aid.

[TheFull9]

First time I ever stuck a VFG on my rifle it seemed like a genius idea, "this is so much more comfortable!" I said to myself. The first guy I ever saw doing it partial was the spec-ops type dude in the first series of 'Primeval' on ITV; being intrigued by it, I gave it a go the next time I had my AEG out, and realised how wrong I'd been before. Using a full grip now, to me personally, actually feels a bit uncomfortable and unnatural.

 

Wonder if anything will come after the AFG? Different angles of AFG I reckon.

[Jungle_Spectre]

I've been grabbing it "Costa style" long before I even knew who Chris Costa was. I suppose it came from grabbing the magwell of my MP40. Anyway it is good to be able to apply the "pointing thumb" technique consciously, specially with handguns.

[kapitan_jay]

no VFG at all, an AK is an AK is an AK is not an M4 ^^

[Talonclaw117]

Can someone post a picture of the proper way to hold one? As I've no idea how on earth I'm holding mine.

[hayabusa46]

Can someone post a picture of the proper way to hold one? As I've no idea how on earth I'm holding mine.

 

 

[Jungle_Spectre]

Can someone post a picture of the proper way to hold one? As I've no idea how on earth I'm holding mine.

 

This is my -lousy- grip:

(Thumb should be aligned with the barrel)

 

You can see where it comes from:

 

Mr. Costa & Mr. Healey at it:

 

[Skarclaw]

hmm, I do it like the guy in the top left corner of the pic just above this post, the way the dude has it in the very top pic of the page seems really unnatural on a g36k, atleast.

[GuzziHero]

I do understand the point of the point as it were...that is that you point your forehand along the line of the weapon.

 

Ill have to try that some time, when I next play on a site where a long gun is usable!

[Titleist]

Please keep in mind my experience is half airsoft, and half real shooting, so it's going to be half in and half out on applicability.

 

My grip has gone from the full wrap around grip, which is the step up from the magwell grip (carried over from the subgun era), and has slowly worked its way over the top of the gun. I tend to run with either a partial or knuckles over the barrel style grip. It really depends on application and hardware. For example when I run rifle at night I'm forced to bring my hands down lower (to accommodate the use of a PEQ), though I still work to keep my fingers and thumbs following the direction of the barrel.

 

Now something to keep in mind, and the intention is NOT that of snooty, is that I think a lot of people are valuing comfort at the sake of control. The object of your grip and stance is to achieve as great of positive and direct control as possible when taking the shot. I clearly understand that airsoft does not have the same response after you've pulled the trigger (as compared to real guns), so airsofters are coming at the problem from a different perspective, which is usually "what feels best," instead of what's provides as much control over the rifle. With the higher grip you gain more control over the bore-line of the rifle.

 

Because of this it's a bit hard to disprove grips like the 'magwell' or 'wrap around' because often times airsofters don't see how that grip translates in to getting back on target because there's no created recoil or muzzle flip. I'm not saying this in a "airsofters just don't get it", but rather the grips that yield bad results in real shooting don't yield bad results in airsoft because they're not encountering the same issues on shooting.

 

I know for myself that when I run and gun, and bring my reaction side arm high and straight it's not very comfortable but that added rigidity in combination with a strong (and far forward) grip translates in to reduced time need to get back on target.

 

If the mods are okay with it I have a couple of close crops of how I grip my VFGs. (Mods, that okay?)

[Stealthbomber]

If the mods are okay with it I have a couple of close crops of how I grip my VFGs. (Mods, that okay?)

Fine by me.

 

TBH, I agree with most of that.

 

I guess that, as usual, it depends whether a person treats airsoft as a standalone sport or if they just wanna mimic what real-steel shooters do.

It's all very well copying real-steel techniques and they often make a good starting point but, given the different conditions in airsoft, it's probably not wise to assume that what's best for real-steel shooting is best for airsoft.

 

I always figured that using a VFG would make a rifle less stable than holding the foregrip.

Cos you're holding it in the same plane with both arms (hands vertical, basically) there's nothing to brace the stance, compared to a tradition grip on the foregrip.

It's kinda like a 5-bar gate without the diagonal brace.

 

Thing is, you CAN get away with that in airsoft because there's no recoil to worry about.

A stance that favours manoevrability over stability is more likely to pay off way better in airsoft than in RS shooting.

Conversely, a stance that creates stability is really only likely to pay off in a small percentage of situations.

 

TBH, I suspect that a lot of the "milsim snobs" who're taking the mickey out of "speedsofters" here would probably end up having their asses handed to them by speedballers in a CQB game.

Fact is that speedballers have developed techniques that are optimised for what they do.

It's not pretty and it sure ain't milsim but it's horses for courses.

[[BS]_MARS]

I find a VFG not really useful, so I stopped using one. I hold it like this 90% of the time now.

 

 

 

TBH, I suspect that a lot of the "milsim snobs" who're taking the mickey out of "speedsofters" here would probably end up having their asses handed to them by speedballers in a CQB game.

Fact is that speedballers have developed techniques that are optimised for what they do.

It's not pretty and it sure ain't milsim but it's horses for courses.

 

 

This is true a lot of times. I consider milsim to extend into tactics too, so it's very frustrating to get hosed by the dude with an 11.1v battery and boxmag spraying every opening he can see.

[Azulsky]

For airsoft i dont use them, uncomfortable for me, even have the sp89 grip on my mp5k for that reason

[baklash 1337]

I only use a VFG on my Glock Carbine, since I hate rifles that have over 9000 rails on them. I do the full-grip thing because I've never fired a firearm with a VFG (or fired any firearm for that matter) and don't know how to "correctly" hold it if I am not already. However, I do use a proper shooting stances in the case I ever do get to use a real-steel firearm so that I do not form a habit.

 

Everyone has their preferences. I suppose there is no real "wrong" way, its just whatever works best.

[Titleist]

A visual example of how I hold mine:

 

 

I'm giving the Magpul AFG a go, still on the fence. But my grip hasn't changed much with it, as I'm used to that high tang grip over the forearm. Again where my grip has to change is when I'm running equipment that prevents that grip, such as a PEQ or specialty optic.